Chet and the "Countrypolitan" sound

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 6 Jul 2001 7:25 pm

Larry.
You have a direct line to the facts. Chet was a protege of Steve Sholes "head of RCA Victor" in New York City. Since many of the country artists,,Eddy Arnold ,,,,Homer & Jethro etc etc came to NY for their sessions
it was Chet who convinced Steve Sholes to take the sessions to Nashville.

I know for a fact as well as guitarists and fiddle players performed on the artists recordings in New York it was Chet who convinced Sholes that the sound captured by studio musicians such as George Barnes,Tony Mottola, Bucky Pizzerelli etc was not the sound Chet was after.

It put me out of business at RCA as far as any future recordings ,,the sound Chet was after simply was not happening here in NY
regardless of how great the musicians mentioned above were.

He was in favor of the Hank Garlands, Grady Martin's and the true sound of country,,,how could anyone fault Chet for doing what the RCA corporates wanted. Many wanted to "dress" up country music,,the die hards
objected as did Chet,,,he had no choice in the matter.

Iam from the Eddy Arnold,Red Foley, Ernest Tubb scene,,,Iam not in favor of what has happened to what they refer today as "new country,,,,but it sell's and thats what it is all about.

When have you ever seen popularity with what they refer to as country music today as compared to the years gone by?? Iam not a fan of todays music no way,,,but it was not the doing of Chet that influenced this change
It was in the works,,,,he just had to go with the flow, he was a GREAT Musician and a GREAT Human being,,,may he rest in peace.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 6 Jul 2001 7:32 pm

Basically we'rte allowed to have an opinion, and if that doesn't fit in with what you guys find acceptable, then fair enough.

I imagine that Chet's name continually popping up simply reminded Mike of those productions that he and I seem to share a strong dislike for.
I may point out earlier that Chet was in on some of the finest Nashville rock records that Elvis ever cut, but the whole point is that it's a matter of taste.
I much prefer old timey, bluegrass and Woody guthrie type music to the whole Nashville Sound era, and we are allowed to say these things.
If you think mike's and my timing is bad, fair enough, but when one gets retrospective about a career, I have no problem with being critical about it.
I don't get into much Nashville sound material, but I don't think much of Lawrence Welk either, too uptown and smaltzy... see that's an opinion, it's different to some other people's on the list, but if it wasn't for people wanting to break away from certain established sounds then there would be no progression.
I feel that like now, country music was generally in a dead spot.

Anyway, this could go on forever...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 6 Jul 2001 8:21 pm

Larry L. I wasn't trying to offend anybody, and I really do admire Chet as a guitarist. I never met the man, but from what others have said about him he apparently was a very nice guy.

But as I said before, I think that when he produced those records, incorporating middle of the road elevator music instrumental backgounds and those lame background vocals, he compromised the integrety of the music.

One of the things I like about country music is it's honesty. I think the countrypolitan sound was musically dishonest. Maybe Chet was doing what the company told him to and would have preferred to make more authentic records. He certainly wouldn't be the only producer pressured by the suits at a record company to add certain elements that the graphs and charts from the accounting department say would increase sales. (Pete Anderson said that he had the same problem when he was with Warner Brothers.)

But whoever is responsible, I think that the countrypolitan sound of the 60's does a disservice to the music.

If my opinions offend you, than I will have to live with the knowledge that I've offended somebody. (I assure you that you are not the only one.) But I call them as I see them and will not hide my opinions or thoughts because some people might not agree with them.[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 06 July 2001 at 11:44 PM.]

KEVIN OWENS · Post by **KEVIN OWENS** » 7 Jul 2001 8:22 am

I'm not knocking Chet as such, but for me, the 1958 to 1966 period in Nashville was a real low point, sure there where some great records that used a pop crossover, Johnny Cash 'Ring Of Fire,' Patsy Cline, and plenty of others sure.

Jason,
that time frame (1958-1966) knocks out some of the best music Nashville ever recorded. All the best Ray Price stuff was cut during this era. Ernest Tubb had Buddy Emmons, Bobby Garrett, Buddy Charleton and Leon Rhodes in his band and on his records. Charlie Walker cut some great shuffles. Loretta Lynn was becoming "THE" country girl singer. George Jones, Kitty Wells, Wilburn Bros., Porter Wagoner, Little Jimmy Dickens.........
Most of the time I agree with you but on this I'll have to respectfully disagree.

Kevin

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 7 Jul 2001 8:46 am

Kevin, I agree... there where some truly great records coming out of Nashville, some of the finest R&B and soul music also eminated out of that place.

Tubb and Price aren't particuarly good examples of what I mean, sure Ray did some uptown violin drenched numbers, but in the period we both mentioned these gents where using their road band on sessions, which would hardly qualify as Nashville Sound type recordings, I'd say they were going against the trend.

I'm not saying that the uptown pop thing totally sucked either, I love Roy Orbison.. but he's a pop singer who recorded lush sides in Nashville.
Take Scotty Moore for example. Scotty was the original guitarist for Elvis in Memphis, did Elvis sessions in Nashville and even worked at Sun's Nashville studio in the early 1960s as an engineer and producer.
Scotty also cut an album in 1964 which was drenched with strings and oohing-ahhing choruses aplenty.
I totally adore Scotty, but this solo album is really forgettable.
That's what I mean, "the Nashville Sound," it worked on some records, but it sure killed a lot more.

Dan Hatfield · Post by **Dan Hatfield** » 7 Jul 2001 2:49 pm

Mr. Perlowin, I couldn't disagree more with you and your theories of music. There are times when "Elevator Music" is what I want to hear. I would say that most musicians who play those cuts are generally highly repected studio musicians who know what they are doing. I LOVE the "Nashville Sound" that you like to hack and slash so severely. I love to hear people who have smooth voices like Jim Reeves, Eddie Arnold, and Glen Campbell. Do you think Nat King Cole was "dishonest" because he had such a beautiful silky voice? What I hear you saying is that if you are going to record "Country Music", God forbid that you should sound like you have any education and/or "polish". You must always sound like you just walked out of dogpatch after graduating from the second grade? In my humble opinion, country music has plenty of room for people who sound polished like BUDDY EMMONS, CHET ATKINS, STRING SECTIONS, and yes, even those evil, scum of the earth, dishonest people called the Anita Kerr singers. (She is my mother, by the way). You shouldn't be so narrow minded to accept only pseudo singers such as Buck Owens, Willie Nelson, George Jones etc, who have perfected the "moaning through the nose" trick. By the way, there are times when I am in the mood for the people I just named; but I believe to call them more "honest" than someone like Reeves, Arnold, or Cline is just so much B.S. They aren't any more "honest"; they are just less polished. Why is it a virtue to be more "polished" on an instrument (such as Steel Guitar - God knows Buddy Emmons is the most "Polished" and hence the most respected player in the world), yet you seem to want your vocalists to be the opposite of "polished". Why don't you just chill out and accept the fact that there is room in the pile for all of us, even those that like their country "polished". That's my two cents; now let the flames begin.
With all due respect,
Dan Hatfield

erik · Post by **erik** » 7 Jul 2001 6:25 pm

I need a clarification:

Is Chet Countrypolitan dishonest, but Billy Sherrill Countrypolitan honest? I noticed a 60s cut-off date in a previous post. I can't believe anyone can listen to the George Jones recording of The Door and say it is merely elevator music.

"Country" comes in many sytles. Some people can accept a little variety in their music. Too much of one thing can become tiring, even if it is in it's purist form.

I still maintain that a Country song can be most easily defined by it's rhythmic elements (guitar, bass, drums).

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 7 Jul 2001 6:30 pm

Let's see--- Chet dies and Perlowin bashes him. That stinks,no way around it!!

OK just put yourself in Atkins shoes for a second. 1964---Beatles and other British groups have hit and virtually every radio playlist in America immediately stops playing
pretty much anything that your Mom and Dad listened to. Jazz artist got NO airplay. The country scene was a small market anyway---it got smaller REAL fast. NO young people listening to country at all!!!! Mom and Dad driven out of pop music. What does Atkins do???---he saves RCA Nashville, his job and country music in general by giving your Mom and Dad something to listen to by some of the greatest country artist you will ever hear.

Perlowin hates the Anita Kerr singers but you need to transport your butt level consciousness back to 1963. Your Mom and Dad had listened to the HiLos and the Four Freshmen and other spectacular vocal groups. This was a familiar sound to them. Atkins just used what they had listened to before the British bomb. What YOU hate THEY liked. Millions of records sold---Eddy Arnold and other RCA artist on network TV every weekend--GET IT!!!!! A producers' job is not to cater to purists who would just as soon not buy any records unless they were done by the Carter family or some other non electric absolutely raw unadulterated country/hillbilly group. His job is TO SELL RECORDS!!!! Say that one thousand times.

I hope your dog dies Perlowin. You bad mouth Chet Atkins before he assumes room temp---What a sleazy deal!!

When you produce ONE record that sells a million copies THEN you get to bash Chet.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 7 Jul 2001 7:30 pm

That's a heavy post Bill. A grand Slam!
On the other hand, Mike is entitled to his opinions. He just picked a bad time to aire
them. I am very surprised he did that.
I liked almost all of Chet's productions including the Anita Kerr singers but my focus
was on the man and his guitar playing. He had a touch beyond compare. It won him a lot of arguments...including this one.

Gary Harris · Post by **Gary Harris** » 7 Jul 2001 8:11 pm

A young electrician living in a Memphis housing project almost single handedly killed country music. Over in Arkansas lived a school teacher who's Native American wife encouraged him to take his songs to Nashville. One of the songs that he recorded in Nashville was about a North Carolina general who happened to live outside Nashville and defeated a British general by the name of Packenham in New Orleans. This song was heard by a Texan on his car radio. This song was recorded by this young man and became a smash hit for him and country music. I give Johnny Horton credit for giving country music a jump start when it was needed.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 7 Jul 2001 10:10 pm

I hope your dog dies

That's uncalled for.

...Mike is entitled to his opinions.

Apparently not if they don't conform to those of everybody else.

This is getting ugly. Bobby please close this thread.

Dan Hatfield, I meant nothing against your mother personally. I'm sure she was a fine woman and a loving mother, and that you love her very much. Please accept my apologies if you were offended by my opinions.[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 07 July 2001 at 11:29 PM.]