Just What Is Considered Traditional Country

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 8 Jan 2002 10:46 pm

The Asylum Street Spankers from Austin have an answer to this topic on their first album; the lyrics of the song "Startin' To Hate Country (But I Still Love Cowboy Songs)" is a pretty good definition

Jussi

bill ramsey · Post by **bill ramsey** » 9 Jan 2002 1:58 am

if u ever hear traditionl country. u will know. tears u all to pieces. the steel whining and the bass kicking. wowwwwwww. u will never listen to anything else.. been playing it for 50 years. dont wanna hear no new stuff.[my opinion]. ty. bill

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 9 Jan 2002 2:47 am

I like , and have to agree with b0b's 1st
response,.............."I KNOW IT,
WHEN I HEAR IT"...well put, b0b.....If y'all haven't "got it" by now, well then,
that's OK. Just don't fret. And yes....
there will be another dawning......stick around.

ChipsAhoy

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 Jan 2002 6:14 am

Conclusive results from the "Bovine Research Institute of Human Memory Dysfunction" in Studio City Ca. have found that human males tend to identify and fixate on whatever music was popular before they got married (the first time). Fascinating study! I think we are seeing some of the more redundant ramifications of this study in this thread.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 09 January 2002 at 06:17 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 9 Jan 2002 6:16 am

It's funny that traditional country music isn't always played by country acts. I think that some stuff like the following is traditional country to me!

She's a Barmaid in the Honky Tonky Downstairs by POCO.

Big Big World..by Johnny Burnette

Honky Tonk Nightime Man by Lynyrd Skynrd

There are a bunch of others but I agree with b0b when he said "I know it when I hear it". That's the best description yet. Some people say it has fiddle and steel but that's not true as in the old ET records of the 40's with Billy Byrd's guitar as the primary lead or the Cash stuff with Luther P.

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 11 January 2002 at 04:38 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 9 Jan 2002 8:47 am

...human males tend to identify and fixate on whatever music was popular before they got married (the first time).

Nice try, Bob, but before my first marriage I was into b@nJ* musick!

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 9 Jan 2002 8:50 am

The Asylum Street Spankers from Austin have an answer to this topic on their first album; the lyrics of the song "Startin' To Hate Country (But I Still Love Cowboy Songs)" is a pretty good definition

How can you DO that to us without posting the lyrics?

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 9 Jan 2002 4:34 pm

Good one Glen....... what is traditional country music?
Who's country ya talkin' 'bout??
Me being a Limey living on Canadian soil in North America playing, or trying to play pedal steel and banjo amongst mixed audiences of native people, Americans and Canadians with a few Euorpeans throw in at the deep end.
I must admit - when it comes up in "polite" conversation, I always mention the fact that I play American instruments and try to play them by my best abillity - not always the case but most people are forgiving arround these parts.
A lot of what I consider "Country Music" has to be the older "type" not nesessarily "old" country music, but music that can be whistled and be recognised for what it is.
A young kid goes to my youngest kids school and drives a bright red pickup truck with tapes playing of all what most of the guys here consider "real" country music.
Strange to say but some of the other kids get a charge out of this kids ideals in music to such an extent that other kids have started to listen to his trucks offerings.........go figure.

Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs. and other weird things.

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Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 9 Jan 2002 5:18 pm

Listen to the ingrediants of Steve Goodman's "Perfect Country Western Song" as sung by David Alan Coe. This is a good start for a "Traditional Country Song." But, there again, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 9 Jan 2002 7:46 pm

One good defining aspect of most true "Country" music is the way the bass bounces between the root note and fifth tone in succeeding progression.

...sort of like an Oom-Pah Band or a Schubert or a Strauss Waltz? I guess we didn't say which country...

Back to the topic--Traditional COUNTRY music is music played to a COUNTRY beat with COUNTRY instrumentation

...like the music that hippie long-hair drunken drug-addict Gram Parsons played...
[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 09 January 2002 at 07:52 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 9 Jan 2002 10:59 pm

David, I knew someone would get after me with that

. I wanted to post the lyrics too, but I didn't have the cd at hand, will try to do that tomorrow. While I'm at it, why don't ya'll get the cd! It's not traditional country, but boy, there is tradition allright. How can you resist a band, that mixes all the elements of classic American music plays completely acoustic, no microphones, PA or amplification whatsoever. One of the most entertaining bunch of people I've ever seen!

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 9 Jan 2002 11:59 pm

It's easy to give the duck answer (if it quacks, etc.)but, seriously, the music has drastically changed, at least the music I hear on the radio. When was the last time you heard a sad song? Nowadays, every song is positive. Of the music I grew to love, 90% at least were sad songs. I think a sad song is great inspiration for a steel or fiddle solo, not to mention the vocal. Listen to Hank! Those performances moved you! I couldn't care less if some singer loves her family life. Maybe if she had to spend a couple of years in prison?

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Dave

erik · Post by **erik** » 10 Jan 2002 12:14 am

Ummmm no, not triplets.

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 10 Jan 2002 9:54 am

No pain, No gain. My personal faves include, cryin, lovin, leavin, truckin, cheatin, and , oh yeah, Drinkin.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Jan 2002 8:35 pm

What Bobby Lee said has some merit...the fact that Traditional Country doesn't have distorted guitars and crashing drums. (I'm proud of you, Bobby!) Now, it may well be "different things to different people", but we must remember that some of these people will be way off base. Obviously, very obviously, it can't be anything someone chooses. This would take all sanity out of the argument. Of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't make that opinion right...in anybody's eyes but their own. Someone could, for instance, say Lenard Skynard is Classic Country. And while they might even believe it in their heart, they would have a rough time convincing most everybody else.

As I see it, there are now two types of "Classic Country Music". The first was born in the '20s and '30s, and stayed pretty much unchanged through the '40s. Artists like the Carter Family, Jimmie Rodgers, The Carlisle Bros., Hank Williams, and Woody Guthrie would fall into this category. I suppose we could call it "roots music". This was the "Golden Age" of Country music, though it really wasn't even called Country for the most part. Some called it "Hillbilly", some called it "Mountain Music", and some just plain Folk, or Western. But this is where it was born...the music we now call "country".

The second type of "Classic Country" is generally of '50s and '60s vintage. It contains mostly electric instruments, and drums (but subdued sounds, by today's standards). Instrumentation is still simple, and the now ubiquitous synthesizer is still years away. Through the decades of the '70s, '80s, and '90s, this has held pretty fast. In the '80's, for instance, we called the '50s and '60s music "classic". And now, over 20 years later, that hasn't changed. The "classic stuff" hasn't moved with the times. Why? I would guess that it became more "polished" during this period, without being entirely "transformed", as it did in the '70s, and later decades.

Will the definition of "Classic Country" ever change? I don't think so. Some may argue that 40 years from now, when most of us are gone, that artists like Alabama, Garth, Shania, and Brooks and Dunn might become the "Classic Country" stars.

But...

...remember what I said about being "off base"?

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 10 Jan 2002 10:11 pm

"Just Call Lonesome 7-7-2-0-3"

"Nobody Answers, When I Call Her Name"

"Look At Us"

"He Stopped Loving Her Today"

Two Vince Gill songs? Is he "Traditional"?

Zane King's wife, Jessica, has recorded an old Dottie Rambo song, "Come Spring". It has to be one of the best traditional tracks I have ever heard! Tommy White plays steel.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 11 Jan 2002 12:43 am

"Startin' To Heat Country" by The Asylum Street Spankers:

"Well I turned on my tv set,
To see if it was as cheesy as I forget
Maybe country videos my soul to save
But them new wave Nashvilles on the juke
Turned my gut fixin' to puke
I bet Hank Williams is spinnin' in his grave

This western glamour's full of Philistines
Churnin' out false prophets
Slave to the machine
But I'm headin' for the lowlands
You won't miss me when I'm gone
'Cause I'm startin' to hate country
But I still love cowboy songs

Well Marty Robbins heard the masters call
With spade Cooley behind the wall
I could listen to swing and boogie
all damn week
But cowboy songs take the back seat
When they play that "achy breaky" geek
Makes me proud as hell that I'm a freak"

-then the band announces the list of c&w artists they enjoy hearing( on 78rpm ):

"Gene Autry, Ernest Tubb, Homer & Jethro, Bob Wills, Milton Brown, Jimmy Bryant, Curtis Gordon, Hank Penny, Pee Wee King, Speedy West, Lefty Frizell, Jimmy Rodgers, Roy Acuff, Bobby Sisco, Bill Boyd, Bill Monroe, Merle Travis, Shelton Brothers, Johnny Cash, Hank Harral, Cliff Bruner, Floyd Tillman, Delmore Brothers, Buck Owens, Webb Pierce, Faron Young, Ray Price, Tammy Wynette, Patsy Cline, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Loretta Lynn, sons Of The Pioneers, Kitty Wells, George Jones, Minnie Pearl, Light Crust Doughboys"

I might have left out few of the names out by accident, but I guess that pretty well sums it up

The song itself is an uptempo with chorus a'la "Smoke Smoke Smoke" and a long upright slap bass solo

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 11 Jan 2002 6:59 am

..Donny, at the risk of having a wrong opinion, I have to respectfully disagree about the 50's and 60's stuff being a polished version of the original "hillbilly/mountain/country/western" stuff of the 40's and before...

..when I think of 50's country, I think of Patsy Cline singing Willie's "Crazy" with a lot of strings and schmaltzy instrumentation..it doesn't sound "country" to my ears..or I think of hybrid country/R&B tunes like "I Can't Stop Loving You", or "Behind Closed Doors", neither one of which has traditional "country" instrumentation to my ears...and then for 60's stuff there were also ventures into "Harper Valley PTA", which does have country instrumentation but to my ears sounds like the 60's version of Shania..

..I hold to my opinion that there is no "traditional" country music, just continuous mutations of a very broadly defined genre..Hank and the Carters etal didn't invent any new sound, there were folk tunes and mountain tunes and work songs and spirituals and all sorts of other sources that found there way into Hank's and the Carter's sounds...

...the genre can't be mistaken for European Classical or American Jazz, but it is broad and fluid with a lot of variations on the underlying theme...

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 11 Jan 2002 2:57 pm

Pat you have a point....maybe "traditional country" should be defined as: "an elusive and abstract term that is used to describe whatever an individual thinks it to be".

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 11 Jan 2002 5:12 pm

My thought is: Country music sets a scene or, more likely, uses the lyrics to TELL A STORY. It can be fast, or slow, or in-between, but there's gotta be a story there....now, about Bud's Bounce...hmmmmm.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 11 Jan 2002 5:34 pm

...Gene, I'm not attempting to define "traditional country" at all, I've said twice in this topic that I don't believe there is any such thing, and I explained why I believe that way. I make no attempt to define that which I don't believe exists..

Glenn, I'm not sure that anyone knows for sure.....from all that's been posted about it, it seems to depend upon which "decade" you were first exposed! www.genejones.com P.S. I didn't like Ray Price with orchestra and strings (apparently no one else did either).

..a couple days ago you seemed to think it was an elusive and abstract term too...and you didn't like schmaltzy orchestration any more than I do...

[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 11 January 2002 at 05:49 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 12 Jan 2002 5:44 am

Whoaaaa Pat.......I've re-read all of the referenced posts and they still say as I intended......that I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU.
Your perception that my comments were contradictory is in your misinterpretation of intended humor. (Was the smiley absent?)

I embrace and play all music, but I definately have listening preferences within genre. I currently work in a contemporary country music venue and I was not defending the "status quo", but I still don't like the orchestration on that Ray Price Album mentioned ....that's a personal preference not a definition. I didn't like Hank Williams Sr. either, but that's also a personal preference.

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 12 January 2002 at 07:24 AM.]

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 12 Jan 2002 10:44 am

I'm gonna get rocks in my mailbox over this one, but;
This old bluegrasser says Real Traditional Country Music can be played during a power failure.

-John

 Oboy... I'm in for it now...

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 12 Jan 2002 11:23 am

..I'm sorry, Gene..guess I was being overly sensitive and defensive, I read sarcasm in your post that wasn't there, probably because I use sarcasm a lot myself..it's a character flaw that I'm not proud of..

..and I can only take small doses of Hank Sr. myself..or Woody Guthrie, or Bill Monroe..

..I'm my own worst enemy sometimes, please accept my apology, Gene, I have a great deal of respect for you..