Why the Blues ?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 4 Dec 2003 7:32 am

Dave Boothroyd's story about a Senegalese word for a type of circle dance shout sounding like the English word "blues" is really interesting. Most of the slaves were taken from West Africa, and many from Senegal. West African music clearly uses the pentatonic scale with the "blue" flatted 3rds, 5ths and 7ths, as well as jump blues kinds of rhythms. The music is clearly linked, so it makes sense that the name would be also.

This is similar to the bilingual derivation of the word jambalaya. An African word for rice is "ya". The French for ham is jambon (shambo), and French for "with" is "a la." So ham with rice becomes "jambon a la ya." Which, if you say it fast and anglicize it, comes out jambalaya. And "gumbo" is an African word for okra, which is maybe why I don't think much of yankeefied versions without the okra.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Dec 2003 9:21 am

Yeah David D.
the Po'Boy' samwiches were originaly the Pourboire (or Tip in French) for the errand boy.
how 'bout the Grand Tétons ?
even Buffalo Folks !!! (Beau Flots)

there is an element to be considered about the Slaves from Africa to the New World.
Often slaves were NOT kept w: their own tribe. They were deliberately split apart and mixed w: slaves from other tribes who spoke different tongues.
these were not the kind of voyages where the whole family or village were together.
nevertheless i totally agree w: the above posts about the musical origin of the Blues.
Africa (and the Delta)
Donna, ain't no skunks round here like that striped one.
since he's the kind of critter i like, i'll take him over the cock"a"roach
i musta seen too many of 'em in the Apple
and you wanna know why i sing the Blues ?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 04 December 2003 at 09:22 AM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 4 Dec 2003 4:41 pm

" Every day I have the yellows"

"My Mama done told me, there'd be greens in the night..."

"I got the St. Louis reds"

"Why I sing the purples"

After much consideration, I think I'll stick with blues.

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 4 Dec 2003 7:40 pm

I think a good title for a song would be
"Red Green Is Just A White Guy With The Blues"
Four colors in one title!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 5 Dec 2003 5:34 am

Y'all playin' fast an' looses,
Lawsy Mama, gives me the Chartreuses

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 5 Dec 2003 7:37 am

"I got my reservation, on the white-cross express!"

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 6 Dec 2003 2:55 am

it looks like John Light's reference is correct.
To be Blue and Blue Devils have been around since the 16th century in the Kings English.
the use of the Blues appears in Irving Ash's "Rip Van Winkle": "a fit of the Blues"
it seems that the Blues in Musik has been influenced by more than the Slaves from Africa
The Celts/Irish sang (hollers ?)against the occupant using pentatonic scales as well
the Mexican vaqueiros (cowboys) brought the guitar to the US (that's what makes Texas so special ) playing Arabic, Andalusian and Castillian styles using Diatonic scales + Phrygian mode
ie: Blind Lemon Jefferson
there is also a Cherokee contribution to the Blues by the freed slaves that mixed w: the Cherokees.
ie: Lowell Fulsom
the Blues found in Musik starts around 1850 w: a popular tune called " Today i've got the Blues" (Who ?)
in 1910 white violinist Hart Wand publishes "the Dallas Blues"
'round 1920 "Crazy Blues" by Mammie Smith sells 1 million copies in less than 6 months
the TOBA (tough on black asses) Minstrel and medicine shows are spreadin' the news, i mean the Blues
"Sing 'em for Poppa and Play 'em fer me" by Katty Cripper and Fletcher Henderson" (1921)
last but not least round 1915/20, WC Handy from Memphis gets to hang around Beale st and gets hooked on the sounds of "where the Southern cross the dog"

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 06 December 2003 at 02:56 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Dec 2003 8:36 am

Well, the original question for this thread was why are they called "the blues." The most interesting and original thing I've heard here is that a European slang term for melancholia (which I knew about) and an African term for a type of music (a term I never heard of before) sounded enough alike that they got merged into the name for African-American folk music. That's what the ethnologists call convergent evolution.

Now we are branching off into what kinds of music fall under the category of "the blues." That will be an endless argument, because the category is very loosely defined. We've established that calling melancholia "the blues" goes way back, and apparently predates the musical genre. So just because a song has "blues" in its title or lyrics doesn't really qualify it for the genre.

Today the term mostly means the genre derived from Delta and Chicago juke joint blues, because that is the sound that prevailed in the electric era. But folk blues of a wide variety were played by blacks all over the South at the advent of recording. And the so called "classic blues" of Ma Rainey, Bessi Smith and John Handy is really a very different style from Delta/Chicago blues. But of course there is overlap among all of these.

Scotch-Irish white southern folk music and African-American music swapped songs and styles for generations and are heavily influence by each other, and the influence continued in the electric era. But it seems like too much of a stretch to call any pre-American Irish music "blues," even if it used a pentatonic scale and sang about "the blues." I mean you can call it that if you want to, but then the term goes from loose to meaningless.

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 7 Dec 2003 6:59 am

The place to start is in the deep South,like Miss.Ala.Ark.Here you will find the roots.It grew after the War Between the States.Many of the early country greats like Jimmy Rogers and Hank Williams learned the blues from black guitar players.If you want to add to the question go study country blues.Hank Williams was called at times a country blues singer, and a folk singer.The root is way before electric blues and BB King.The answer is even before Robert Johnson.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 7 Dec 2003 8:00 am

For that you need go much farther, before Stephen Foster, into the Minstralsey, and post war reconstruction periods.

If you look at Bluegrass it was an amalgam of blues roots grafted on minstral music and black blues, with an african pulse, and a romantic vision of a lost innocence in the southland.

Lost innoncence is a prime theme and motivator of the blues. Fallen women now in the grave for their sins. Lost love caused by fate or our own weaknesses. The prodigal returns after trials, tribulations and debaucheries unmentioned, only to find mom and pop gone and the fields turned brown.

And of course the prodigal or wastrel fallen by his own actions into drunkeness and despair only able to sing of his pain. No home that will have him, just drifting under the sky, turning blue to black each night.

All is the blues.
Fear and dispair in the small circle left as the firelight dies away for lack of wood, and the deep dark blue sky turns to black and we are alone with our demons.

The blues go back MUCH further than the word
Blue.

I wonder if there is an biblical reference to blue and sin?

Donna Dodd · Post by **Donna Dodd** » 7 Dec 2003 11:34 am

According to The New Strong’s exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, there are 50 references to BLUE in the Bible. Although most are in the book of Exodus, there is additional mention in Numbers, 2 Chronicles, Esther, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel. Every reference seems relative to fabric, clothing or embroidery. Since I haven’t studied the text closely, I would be interested in doing so – mainly to see if there seems to be a negative or positive connation of the word, BLUE. [This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 07 December 2003 at 11:35 AM.][This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 07 December 2003 at 03:22 PM.]

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 7 Dec 2003 1:22 pm

The bible wasn't written in English originally, so you have to blindly trust
the translation. Therefore any references
to blue are second hand or more.
The translater may or may not be accurate, depending if he
(all the translaters were men)
had a hidden agenda.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 7 Dec 2003 2:30 pm

Tis true about the multiple translations, but
I am sure the color blue has been around since well before then. What caveman never saw the sky and didn't think of it's color, before he had a clear language to exxpress it?

And what ever names it has been called in the book could be refeneced accurately to some shade of blue as we know it.

Donna do some homework please and let us know what you find out. I am not good enough with a french bible to be much of a reference. The last translator in the chain would be quite suspect LOL.

And it should also be good for the soul too.
A couple of good hours with the bible should be a good cure for the blue devils!

Donna Dodd · Post by **Donna Dodd** » 7 Dec 2003 3:33 pm

Ok, here’s what I found:
All 50 “BLUE” references in the King James Version of the Bible are from the Old Testament - translated from Hebrew or Aramaic. The original word was pronounced tek-ay-leth; the cerulean mussel, i.e. the color (violet) obtained therefrom or stuff dyed therewith.

Still sounds like a cloth thing – maybe I’ll go down to Fabric City and see what they have to say.

And, yes David - my soul feels better! Thanks for the challenge!
[This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 07 December 2003 at 03:37 PM.]