Technique- The Key To Success

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 15 Dec 2003 6:09 pm

Stephen G.,

I would leave this forum, long before becoming hostile. You have presented many interesting replies, and my "radar" provided me with a positive feed-back, whenever your articles appear. It's always rewarding to learn something new, and to recognize an opportunity to do so.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 15 December 2003 at 09:18 PM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Dec 2003 5:10 pm

In summation, I would include the slimline short pedals, as part of a technique that I've developed this past year. They are mounted between the ABC pedals, and their purpose is to lower the 5th and 6th strings a full or half tone. I tend to trend towards the adversarial procedures when just a hint of monopolization rears its controlling head. My motto is when something doesn't look or feel quite right, it can be subjected to change. The front mounted "Upright Fretboard" is a classic example of a technique that allows for perfect visual placement of the bar. Technique is an endless winding trail, that holds many rewards along the way.

Bill H.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 19 Dec 2003 11:43 am

yall shore talk funny...

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Dec 2003 6:37 pm

I sort of echo what Paul said about Jimmy Bryant. Not only were there few (if any) steelers in 1955 that could keep up with him, but even today...there's very few steelers who could keep up with what he was doing back then.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 27 Dec 2003 5:51 am

Donny H.,

Thanks for picking up the ball, and resuming the game of searching down memory lane. If you're not aware of BUDDY EMMONS' performance, which was recorded "live" in PEMBROKE, MA
July 17, 1977, there is every indication, that during the show, he was HOT!! Jazz guitarists Mike Ihde, and Jamie Glaser were behind him, with Kermit Driscoll on bass, Ed Fargo on keys, Rich Rosenbluth on drums, and guest singer, John Lincoln Wright. It was a day of reckoning for the attendees.

Buddy was 12 or 13 years old, when Jimmy Bryant was establishing himself as one of the most proficient guitarists, entering the mainstream of jazz oriented music.
I know very little about Jimmy Bryant in terms of associates, or random musical experiences. How his finesse on the guitar fretboard, is viewed by Buddy E., or P. Franklin, would be of great interest. I know that Jimmy was a member of "Sons Of The Pioneers", and is in many Roy Rogers movies.
For years he was a member of the "Hometown Jubilee", from Hollywood.
Jimmy Bryant was a songwriter as well as musician. He wrote,"Only Daddy To Walk The Line", and it was recorded by Waylon Jennings in 1968
on the Imperial label.

My interest in guitar, was heightened, after obtaining a long play album, and listening to Jimmy's guitar work with Speedy West, recorded in 1953.

Bill H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Dec 2003 7:39 am

I know that Jimmy was a member of "Sons Of The Pioneers", and is in many Roy Rogers movies.

Are you sure about that, Bill?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 28 Dec 2003 8:53 am

Donny H.,

I feel sure that you would have much difficulty disproving the veracity of my statements regarding Jimmy Bryant. Perhaps through acts of kindness, a few forum members wold go to bat for me on this one. Jimmy's credits are jam packed with his association among celebrities, too numerous to mention. Anyone entertaining thoughts that he wasn't outstanding in his field of endeavors, which included violin, songwriting, guitar, and actor, should be taken to class to engage in an awareness program of who's who.

Bill H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Dec 2003 8:42 pm

Bill, no one was a bigger fan of Jimmy Bryant than I was. I only request affirmation that he was a member of "The Sons Of The Pioneers". (I was recently asked this question by someone on the Forum.) I know he was in a couple of Roy Rogers movies, and the group, "The Sons Of The Pioneers", were in many.

But was he ever a member of the group???

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 29 Dec 2003 3:02 am

Donny H.,

If you could find a reliable source of information on events that occurred more than 50 years ago, perhaps you would find, that presuppositional notions are not infallible. The nice part of these exchanges, is that, the end result is a renewed interest in a guitarist who gave new hope in the mastery of the Spanish guitar. His association with Speedy West is becoming fairly well known, due to the album that was released in 1954. Please let me hear from you, should you find variances, which would point out, that I have erred in any of my prevous statements.
I admire your caution, in accepting little known activities, of the "Fastest Guitar", and his whereabouts a half-century ago.

Bill H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Dec 2003 4:31 am

Bill, whether it is you or I that is in error is unimportant (to me, anyway). What is important is the published historical record of this group (The Sons of the Pioneers) as well as correct information for our readers here on the Forum about Jimmy Bryant. I can find no record or verification that Jimmy Bryant was ever a member of The Sons of the Pioneers.

May I take it, from your circumspect rhetoric, that you can't either?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 29 Dec 2003 5:52 am

Donny H.,

I can't imagine why there is such a hush from others, who may have valuable information on Jimmy's activities from '49 through '54. If some of the senior members of the forum, who have good knowledge of his exceptional guitar backup, would speak out, the membership in "Sons Of The Pioneers", would suddenly become more acceptable to disbelievers. His credits are many, and it's unlikely that the accounts of his career, will ever be fully appreciated. Memories have a tendency to fade, when greatest of talents are no longer in the public's view.

Bill H.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 29 Dec 2003 1:06 pm

May I take it, from your circumspect rhetoric, that you can't either?

..Donny, respectfully, and at the risk of talkin' funny, I'd like to submit that "circumspect", which Websters defines as 'aware and heedful of consequences, prudent', may not be the best choice of word...although "rhetoric" is clearly the right word, I question the degree of care with which the words are chosen, and I don't think there is a great concern for consequences in Bill's post to qualify his statements as 'circumspect'...

...could I suggest replacing "circumspect rhetoric" with "circumvention", meaning "avoidance, especially by ingenuity", which, if I was Webster, I would have called "dancing around the issue"...

..alternatively, instead of 'circumspect rhetoric', the word 'circumlocution' could be used, which Websters defines as 'the use of an excessive number of words to articulate an idea', which is an accurate description of Bill's response, but it doesn't specifically address his failure to directly answer your question...

..and now we return you to your regularly scheduled program...
[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 29 December 2003 at 01:29 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Dec 2003 5:03 pm

"Heedful of consequences" was sort of what I had in mind. "Circumlocution" is a bit obtuse. "Circumvention" might have been too candid, and could also have been deemed malicious.

Would magniloquence be apropos?

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 29 Dec 2003 5:21 pm

Donny, yer French is Xcellent

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 29 Dec 2003 5:57 pm

..by golly, I had to look that one up, but it would indeed be apropos...and I defer to your intent, as well as your assessment that my choice of word is harsh, if not outright malicious.

...and in looking it up, I stumbled upon another word that I had not seen in common usage..."hindbrain". Those who are unfamiliar with the word and are interested in Webster's definition could look it up, and everyone else can go ahead and surmise that the word describes the source from which my thoughts arise...

...Bill, I hand you back your hijacked thread...[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 29 December 2003 at 06:10 PM.]

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 29 Dec 2003 8:36 pm

My mental syntax has been altered following perusal of Bill Hankey's discourse. Nevertheless, I feel that must comment.

Perhaps the reason that few have responded to the Jimmy Bryant query is related to the fact that it is beyond the scope of the "Pedal Steel" area of the Forum. The index describes the area as a repository for discussion of "(Pedal Steel) Instruments, mechanical issues, tunings, techniques, etc." Certainly this topic has strayed far from that guideline.

I suggest that better responses might be realized in the "Music" area, which is dedicated to "Musical topics not directly related to steel guitar". Jimmy Bryant was legendary, and certainly worthy of all of the praise contained herein, but his incredible talent has little relevance to the study of the pedal steel as a musical instrument, tuning system or machine.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/Officeb0b.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 

System Administrator

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 29 Dec 2003 10:47 pm

Bobby Lee,

200 years ago, the very thought of confusing an issue involving another's credibility, was unheard of. I've pondered the likelihood of someone stepping on the podium, smack dab in the middle of a legitimate, and justifiable insistence, on my part, that Jimmy Bryant WAS a member of "Sons Of The Pioneers". Making light of a musical giant, who was a close associate of Speedy West, is not in the best interest of posterity. At times it becomes a struggle to clear up controversial issues, particularly when I feel the hook around my ankle. I'll just say that any such move to lesson the value of lessons learned on my part, is viewed as a restriction, by the disallowance of a continuance to "wade" into the debate, to prove a point, under this thread title. Donny has emphasized the importance of delivering truthful information on this forum, and I stand ready to accomodate him.

Bill H.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 29 Dec 2003 11:25 pm

http://www.lorenebryantepps.com/
Believe it or else!

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 30 Dec 2003 1:07 am

To Paul Franklin.You are absolutely correct about Jimmy Bryants talent and super speed.I had the pleasure to jam with him at a club in North Hollywood back in 1952.I was new to Ca.at the time and played fiddle.This was years before i took up steel guitar.What many of you may not know is Jimmy was also a very good fiddle player.The reason i know and remember this is because some of us in the group switched instruments.I could aslo play rhythm guitar.Jimmy played my fiddle and played it hot.When he got thru and started to lay my fiddle on top of the piano some how he knocked it off and busted it up pertty bad.As i recall he offered to pay me for it which i refused.Memories are worth so much more than a fiddle.Have a good new year all.Tracy

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Dec 2003 6:06 am

Earnest B.,

Thank you for presenting the informative location of Jimmy Bryant's Biography, which very clearly points out his membership in "Sons Of The Pioneers". I owe you many thanks for shedding light on this issue.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Dec 2003 6:35 am

Tracy S.,

Your recollection of earlier memories, are wonderful examples of our gift to recall earlier experiences, that are seldom thought of, until called upon to do so, by random occurences in everyday life. Thanks for sharing the memory.

Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 30 December 2003 at 06:39 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Dec 2003 8:47 am

Thank you, "Earnest"! That's the kind of substantiation I was looking for. I must now plead mea culpa to Mr. Hankey, and question as to why the many TSOTP bios and websites do not include Jimmy's name? I knew that, in the Roy Rogers' movies, the band (TSOTP) was referred to sometimes as "The Roy Rogers' Riders", and this group is mentioned in some of Jimmy's bios. I have yet, though, to see Jimmy's name in any TSOSP bios, or band member listings, or evidence that he actually toured with the group. This certainly seems a grievous oversight (owing to his talents and fame outside of that group).

Again, thank you Earnest, and I do proffer apologies to Bill. I still seek more info on the subject, and would like to know if others have anything to offer?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 30 Dec 2003 10:32 am

My intention was never to "make light of a musical giant", Bill. I have the utmost respect for Jimmy Bryant.

My point was that this is not a pedal steel topic. I am now moving it to the "Music" area of the Forum, where it rightfully belongs.

Can anyone name any Sons of the Pioneers recordings that feature Jimmy Bryant? I'd love to hear them.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/Officeb0b.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 

System Administrator

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 30 Dec 2003 3:21 pm

It must be true because it's on the Internet.[This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 30 December 2003 at 03:23 PM.]

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 30 Dec 2003 11:54 pm

i just waded through ken griffis' authoritative biography of the sons of the pioneers--the revised edition, published in 1986, after jimmy bryant died.

page 58 contains a chart, showing the membership from 1933 on.

there are 20 members and 5 alternates.

roy rogers
tim spencer
bob nolan
karl farr
hugh farr
lloyd perryman
pat brady
ken carson
shug fisher
ken curtis
tommy doss
dale warren
deuce spriggens
roy lanham
rusty richards
billy armstrong
bob mensor
luther nallie
billie liebert
rome johnson

alternates:

george bamby
doye o'dell
charlie quirk
wade ray
wesley tuttle

no sign of jimmy bryant. not surprisingly, as i had never seen bryant credited as a member.

then i looked in the accompanying discography, which names personnel on recording sessions--again no sign of bryant.

many well known guitarists did pick on their sessions: glen campbell, howard roberts, barney kessel, joe maphis, billy mure, and others. roy lanham was a member for 20 years or so from the early 60s on and is the only well known electric guitar player ever to have been a member.

steel was occasionally used after the war, usually boggs or joaquin murphey. i know sam koki cuts loose on some of their earliest recordings like "so high, so wide, so low" (you must come in at the door)

i wouldn't doubt for a minute that bryant played with them in live performances somewhere, but i don't see any evidence he ever recorded with them and he certainly doesn't appear to have ever been a member.

i read a review somewhere online in the last 6 months ripping his sister's website and her book on jimmy as being full of errors and overstatement.

when you have hugh and karl farr on fiddle and guitar, i am not too sure you need jimmy bryant anyway.