My Hero, Janet Jackson, by Frank Rich

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 16 Feb 2004 12:24 pm

The answer !?[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 16 February 2004 at 12:25 PM.]

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 16 Feb 2004 12:50 pm

I didn't accuse YOU of coming here for gay sex with bears

Well, I'd rather see a naked breast than swap dirty jokes anytime! Larry, you're off base on this one. You can see almost the same persuasion on the "Praise The Lord" channel from that phoney woman with the purple hair. She shows her cleavage regularly. Tell me that you don't notice a pretty woman's cleavage when one walks by you. There are only 2 kinds of men in this world, those who would look and those who would lie about it.

LARRY COLE · Post by **LARRY COLE** » 16 Feb 2004 12:59 pm

quote "..you remind of the joke about the hunter and the grizzly bear (and you know the one I mean)...you didn't come here for the hunting, did you...".
Mike thats what Pat was saying. I'm not swapping dirty jokes with anyone. Gary Steele told me all about you. He said you were a nice guy and you and him are friends.

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Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 16 Feb 2004 1:18 pm

Hey wait a minute...isnt' anyone gonna join my quest?

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 16 Feb 2004 1:37 pm

How can a soft, warm little breast hurt so many big, strong american men - the great grandsons of the pioneers who conqered the wild west?
Another strange thing is this: We say fight - not have violence or make hate, and we broadcast it generously. But we say have sex or make love instead of you-know-what.
Could the world become a better place if sex and violence changed places in the public opinion?
Just think it over.

Anders

Martin Abend · Post by **Martin Abend** » 16 Feb 2004 2:30 pm

Bob,

is that the Burka Band? I read about them a lot one or two years ago but I always thought that they might be fake. Do you happen to know about them?

Concering JJ: You've got problems... Dz.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Feb 2004 3:09 pm

One of the things I find to be fascinating, and what appears to be a common bond between the world's fundamentalist religeons, whether Islamic, Jewish or Christian is the discomfort with nude or suggestively clothed women.

Though most fundamentalist religions might not publicize it, they place great emphasis on controling the sexual urge, and "sex for sex's sake". Naked and scantily-clad women encourage casual sex, and that's why they (religious groups) don't endorse adult nudity.

Music today has become a highly visual art form, and it's prone to sublimating the actual "music" part of a performance. Been to a concert lately? Pop music today isn't music at all, but largely just visual "spectacle", and that's what we got.

Supporting this conjecture, I didn't read or hear any comments at all about Janet's voice!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 16 Feb 2004 3:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>David,
I think with an attitude like yours, Europe is the best place for you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Erv? Wouldn't Boston or NYC or LA, be leftist enough for your erronious impression of me??

It's funny, I observe, that many europeans think the USA is decadent, for acceptance of violence in the culture,
and many americans think that europe is decadent for acceptance of the naked body.

And yet the amrerican culture is an off shoot of european culture, not so long in the past.

My life long friend is a pastor of a church and a fine man, we get along well also.
We differ on a few points, but we also both treat each other with respect for the differences.
A good man of the faith and a good friend of mine.

Erv, I am not sure specifically what attitude this would be. And for the sake of keeping this thread open please don't tell me, I don't really care what intolerance is passed in my direction.
But for the record I wasn't attacking you, so why would you say this?

Making and observation is not the same as being in favor of something.

I am actually rather middle of the road on most subjects and neither hardcore conservative, nor screaming liberal on any of them.
To each their own. Musically, religiously, socially and personally.

On the other hand I could read in that comment that a woman showing any kind of nudity is much worse than a man destroying his body for money... which is what a lot of football players do.

I love that biblical quote above, it actually makes my point rather well, though clearly others interpret it differently.

Was that little comma there in the original greek or aramayic translations? I somewhat doubt that, seems more King James to me.

God clothed Adam and Eve with skin.
Only after they ate the apple did they then feel shame.
But he told them not to eat the apple.

Much of what has become the pop music industry is indeed now multimedia entertainment, to the detriment of the musical content, but it was always like that, it just never had the distrbution network so ALL could see it as well as hear it.

But it seems unlikely we are going back to the days of Hays in films and a doubt this will change in the music industry much either.

I would prefer great musical content to image and attitude. As I think would most on this forum.

But I also think in 300 million people it is impossible not to find one segment that is not offended by something in some other segment.

This has been an interesting thread Chaz, not too vituperative, thanks for kicking it off with a bit of mild socio-musical provocation. LOL.

I wonder how many would be offended if Robert Randolph played without his shirt?

Gee wiz, must be an election year!

Peace to all.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 16 February 2004 at 04:56 PM.]

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 16 Feb 2004 5:21 pm

Gary Steele told me all about you. He said you were a nice guy and you and him are friends

I am and we are but neither have anything to do with Janet Jackson or naked breasts.

Though most fundamentalist religions might not publicize it, they place great emphasis on controling the sexual urge, and "sex for sex's sake".

With due respect to Donny Hinson, I must disagree with the above statement. Those types are usually the ones that wind up in sex scandels, under age child sex and weird kinky sex. I have watched several (more than 9) ordained "Men Of The Cloth" fall victim to the dreaded cleavage, upper and lower!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 16 Feb 2004 5:26 pm

In fact, Jackson and halftime searches that day outscored even the largest one-day total for terrorist-related searches on and after September 11, 2001.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/02/06/jackson.web.reut/index.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/02/16/church.abuse/index.html [This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 16 February 2004 at 06:02 PM.][This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 17 February 2004 at 03:13 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 Feb 2004 5:44 pm

AW, shoot, fellas, I'm gonna have to go with ol' Larry Robbins on this one. I watched the Super Bowl, and didn't even SEE the shot, till the next day, when every news service, network, newspaper, etc., etc., printed a picture, so we would all know about it----or at LEAST to sell more papers.
One problem, though, Larry. That "nipple shield" was a piercing! If we're gonna appreciate the left one, it ain't gotta have a hole drilled in it, too, does it??

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 16 Feb 2004 6:03 pm

I think it's fairly obvious that if it wasn't offensive or provocative to some, she wouldn't have done it.
Offensive ? Not to me. Much ado about nothing. Pathetic ? Oh yeah. They don't make a big enough "P" to put in front of Pathetic for that one. A telling comment on her talent and what she's really selling.
Both the act, and the reaction were disappointing to me. This "singer" got more press from the hand-wringing public than any real musician could buy for a million bucks.
Why does anyone care ? That's what I want to know.
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 16 Feb 2004 6:25 pm

Why does anyone care ? That's what I want to know.

John, I don't care that a breast was exposed, what I care about is the reaction, the long term ramifications of such and how this is a bellwether of our culture.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 16 Feb 2004 6:40 pm

WHO is Janet Jackson?

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 16 Feb 2004 6:55 pm

Pat, I didn't accuse YOU of coming here for gay sex with bears

...and I didn't accuse you of that, either, Larry...it was an analogy, a pointed remark meant to illustrate my point that you profess that Janet Jackson is shoving immorality down your throat and you remark that you're surprised that b0b hasn't shut this down (I assume that's an invitation to b0b to do just that) and yet you keep coming back here...

...my point was that you spend an awful lot of time voluntarily coming back to a topic that you say offends you...seems like maybe you find this topic perversely fascinating and can't bring yourself to admit it...I chose a crude analogy because this is a crude topic...

...I'm not accusing you of sexual deviation, I'm accusing you of hypocrisy...

If that's the way you think, you are one sicko. By the way, I will be praying for you.

...I may be...and thanks for the prayer, it sure can't hurt...
[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 16 February 2004 at 07:01 PM.]

LARRY COLE · Post by **LARRY COLE** » 16 Feb 2004 7:18 pm

Pat just accuse me of standing up for what I believe in and not tucking my tail between my legs and running. You can call me a hypocrit and in your eyes all Christians could be. We are not perfect and won't be until this life is over. We all are human and mess up, that's why we are called sheep. Sheep have a sheppard to look after them and bring them back in when they stray and clean them up and put them back in the flock. That is what most people don't understand. I have messed up many times running the race in 20+ years. That is not my age, I am 49. All of the people God has used in the Bible messed up at one time or another, I am no different. I better stop now. You can feel free to email me anytime and we can discuss it, or email me you number and I will call you.

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Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 16 Feb 2004 7:21 pm

WHO is Janet Jackson?

She's that new "country" singer that Smiley Roberts has been laid up with for the last week in the Bahamas. Visiting Joe Casey in Florida was just a smoke screen.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 16 Feb 2004 8:01 pm

..Larry, I can see that you do stand up for what you believe in...I stand up for what I believe, too, and i believe in live and let live...

..I just bristle every time I see someone trying to push their beliefs off onto everyone else, which is how I perceived the intent of your first post...as an invitation to b0b to shut this down and save us all from something that you didn't want to see...

...I'm ready to let it go now...

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 Feb 2004 1:13 am

Yes Chaz, that is exactly what interests me also,
the uproar in one place, hand ringing and condemnation.
As opposed to a complete inability to see why in another sister culture.

Neither culture being as decadent and horrible as a 3rd culture seems to think.

While a forth and rigid culture will bathe in groups publicly in a highly ritualized fashion, all ages together. And they have a exedingly low viollence level there, except in their films...

Is it any wonder that within the 300 million of one culture, the USA, that there is plenty of disagreement on this.

I see the bear comment as sarcasm, in reduced taste to be sure, with an edge of irony.

The other things I find interesting :

This hasn't been closed.

No one over there has commented on footblall player self abuse of drugs for playing injured. (granted it isn't music, but it is a moral issue).

So many read a post fast and send out a hurt or hurtful reply based on an incomplete and inacurate reading of a post.

Carl Dixon still has no idea who Janet Jackson is...
guess she really needed the press boost. LOL
Even if he is as far removed from her target demographic as you can get and not live in an igloo or Botswana.
Don't worry Carl you never need to know.

And that I am STILL laughing at Howard's cabinet drop interjection.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 February 2004 at 05:40 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Feb 2004 8:16 am

I understand that at the next Super Bowl half time show, they are going to be sacrificing Christians to the lions. The only ones objecting to this are the Christians. But then who really cares what they think? They are only a bunch of narrow minded, bigoted, right-winged screwballs that want to take the fun out of life, right? Just think how nice we all would have it if they weren't around. All the women could run around naked, we could have all the dope we wanted, child pornography would be available on TV, homosexuals could do what ever they do any time they wanted to in public, we could extend partial birth abortion to include maybe the first six months of a baby's life, and when grandma gets unable to take care of herself, we could just shoot her. I really think the world would be a much better place without the Christian influence. Don't you agree?
Erv

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 17 Feb 2004 8:35 am

Hey Erv, keep the child pornography, homosexual sex and abortion comments to yourself. They don't belong on the Forum. There's nothing in the original topic that would justify any need to talk about them and you know that they are devisive topics.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 17 Feb 2004 8:42 am

...I can think of a couple individual match-ups in which I would clearly favor the lion...

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 Feb 2004 8:44 am

Yes,
It is a slippery slope indeed
When one is forced to thus conceed

"That there is more in heaven and earth,
than dreampt of in your philosophy"

So I must then be the 1st sacrificial Scotsman
burned on the pyers of proprieties.
And what better place for a sociological sacrifice that... "The Forum"

Or as the inquisition official said at the sack of Bezier (near here),
thinking there were Cathars inside ;
"Kill them all God will decide who is his own."

Erv, you actually have me quite wrong.
But it seems you would never believe that.

It always amazes me that a the naked body is directly equated with debauchery
and the fall of civilization.
When clothing was really intended, in the beginning, for warmth primarily,
and later status enhancment.

News flash : there IS a civilazation over here, and they haven't fed the lions in centuries.

Observation :
Janet is not shy nor embarrased about her body, and got just what she wanted ;
notoriety and public debate with a ton of press.
Most of her core audience is loving this.
And she is loving it all the way to the bank.

What I do find objectionable is the image of a young man ripping a womans clothes off.
It might be seen to give licence to other young fools to do the same.
At home in fun between consenting adults,
with a good clothes budget, no issue.

I just don't see the towers of civilization crumbling here.
Nor a single fire being lit for christains to be sacrificed.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 February 2004 at 09:00 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Feb 2004 11:38 am

It's just a matter of time!

Mr. Smith,
Don't tell me we're talking censorship! Isn't it a little late for that?[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 17 February 2004 at 11:41 AM.]

Ray Jenkins · Post by **Ray Jenkins** » 17 Feb 2004 12:29 pm

Could the world become a better place if sex and violence changed places in the public opinion

I was once told sex and violence were two seperate acts,.... not around my house it ain't.
Ray

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