Time SIgnature for Allman Bro,'s :"Melissa"?

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 2 Mar 2004 12:41 pm

Hey David---I haven't heard it in quite a while but you should check it out again--I'm pretty sure it's a 7/4 figure. I don't recall if they carry it through the song or if it's just in the head.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 Mar 2004 1:42 pm

Been a long time, true.
Jon might be right. I thought the last 3 were a triplet over 2. Must be the flu. I'll stand corrected.

I was playing 7/4, 2 different times Sunday night, and it feels different than that.
Then again the musics were written about 100 years or more apart, and about 50bpm different too.

Sunday several were also in 7/8 and 1 in 13/8, it was an interesting evening.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 March 2004 at 01:44 PM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 2 Mar 2004 2:02 pm

Actually, for me, that song is more difficult than most odd numbered time sigs (5, 7, 11) because it is relatively uninflected. It really doesn't phrase out to 3's and 2's so much as just runs a plodding 7. I can't say I am or ever was a fan of those guys--I was listening to California stuff and the Allman Bros and for some reason Floyd wasn't in the rotation of the folks I was hanging with. And now they sound pretty pretentious to me. But Money does deserve "classic" status.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 2 Mar 2004 3:09 pm

Pretentious. Yes.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 2 Mar 2004 5:47 pm

(with Irish accent): Pretentious, yes, but I like it too...

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 2 Mar 2004 7:57 pm

Though they might have been considered a jam band there is very much technical consideration to their music.

I agree.

I became a _huge_ fan of the ABB, although Duane had already died before I knew who he was. I envy your having heard them a number of times when he was alive. When I was a teenager, I consented to go with my family on a vacation to Florida, provided they allowed me to make the pilgrimage to Rose Hill Cemetary in Macon, on the way.

I remember reading once, where Duane said something to the effect that everyone in the band knew exactly where they were supposed to be all the time. Listening to post-Duane albums of things recorded when he was alive, early things like "Live at Ludlow's Garage," and contrasting those with "Live at Fillmore East" and "Eat a Peach," one can hear how the actual pre-planned structure of some of their classic longer tunes evolved over time. Like you suggest, the phrase "jam band" probably doesn't sum up the ABB very well. Although accurate in the sense that they did long tunes with a fair amount of individual improvisation, the term might also imply that they either just made up everything as they went along, or just used simple repetitive vamps to do long solos over.

In reality, they created some of the most structured and challenging arrangements in rock of that period.

Hey--I finally bought their newest CD, with Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks on guitars. It's pretty damn good.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 3 Mar 2004 2:30 am

Jeff,
I was fortunate to live at the right place to see them. I saw them once with Duane at Dekalb Community College (1970 I believe). They played for 3 1/2 hours. They played everything from Dimples (Duane on vocals) to Mountain Jam. They really gave you your money's worth. I had a friend who carried a Sony 8 track stereo recorder and recorded it. Actually came out pretty well. Good stuff.
Don't know where he is today.
Lefty[This message was edited by Lefty on 03 March 2004 at 02:31 AM.][This message was edited by Lefty on 03 March 2004 at 02:32 AM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 3 Mar 2004 4:00 am

"In reality, they created some of the most structured and challenging arrangements in rock of that period" No kidding!! I played bass for a while in a group called The Allmost Brothers and that stuff is a pain to learn. At least the set lists were easy to write, I used to just put down "first side Fillmore East album"!! LOL!!!!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 Mar 2004 4:31 am

Try grooving on that bass line for In Memory Of Elisabeth Reed,
or even more so Whipping Post... ooh la la.
That line has lost many a bassplayer a audition for a gig.

Berry Oakley was a very underrated player, but such great grooves he laid down.

And the drummers were content to groove all night and never really do "drum breaks", but when a musical kick was needed they were totally with the frontline.

The only band from that genre and area more elastic is Little Feat.

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 3 Mar 2004 6:35 am

You've got that right, David!

BTW: What is the time signature for Little Feat's "Day at the Dog Races"?

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 3 Mar 2004 7:13 am

The Allmans have been "it" for me since 1970. Their first album sounds just as good now as it did the first time I heard it. Idlewild South still amazes me. (David D., what about "Revival"?) I can still remember sitting in my room while in the 10th grade and learning that tune note for note! Great song.

The thing that amazed me then (and now) was that Gregg sounded so world-weary at 20 years old!

And those two drummers have always been locked in together. The drumming and bass playing has been a major component of their sound from the beginning.

I saw them on a DirecTV "freeview" a few months back, and they are better than ever with Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks. Just amazing!

Rick

------------------
Rick McDuffieMarlen Speedy West, Marlen SD-10, Fender Telecaster Custom, Fermandes LE2G
Rick's Music Photo Gallery
www.tarheelmusic.com

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 03 March 2004 at 07:15 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 Mar 2004 8:11 am

Rick, Revival isn't a big favorite of mine, I do like it, but it seems out of character.
Even if it is a nice nod to the tent show revival meetings of their youth down thataways.

I just put on The Road Goes On Forever.
Melissa is 4/4, with odd accents, but still 4.

Little Martha is SOOOO sweet.

Now Hot'Lanta smokes me, just nail you to floor and slap you silly.

And how bout a hint of where they might have been going ; Pegasus.
It hints at Duane playing with Carlos Santana and turning into a major jazz fusion force.. without losing his roots.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 March 2004 at 08:42 AM.]

Gord Cole · Post by **Gord Cole** » 3 Mar 2004 3:00 pm

I could put "Jessica" on a loop and listen to it over and over all day!!! What a cookin' groove!!! Love it! Think I'll put it on right now.
--Cheers.
Gord

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 3 Mar 2004 7:01 pm

David... and how old was Duane when he died... 24? I can't fathom it!

I agree... Revival was out of character. But I love those two guitars playing in thirds... and that bass line, man! What a tight band.

Gord- me too![This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 03 March 2004 at 07:02 PM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 4 Mar 2004 3:45 am

I'd like to recommend to everyone the latest live DVD by the Allman's of them pickin' at The Beacon. It has Warren and Derek who are just jammin' from front to back. I was pleasantly surprised that Gregg is still singing so well in spite of the hard life he's lived and the fact he don't look all that great. Cheers!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Mar 2004 4:08 am

Chris, when singing the blues, a hard life is a definite plus.

And being with Cher might just qualify.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 4 Mar 2004 2:00 pm

Jessica is a great song. Good driving song. I remember going to the first "Georgia Jam" in 1973 (? fuzzy). When we were waiting in line to get in the Allmans were doing a sound check of "Jessica" before it was released. This was after "Eat a Peach", but before "Brothers and Sisters". This was shortly after Duane died, and it was only Chuck Levell and Dicky. The Allmans were good that day, but Greg was out of it and had to be helped off the stage a couple of times. Marshall Tucker and Lynryd Skynyrd were on the bill also. Lynryd stold the show that day. Marshall Tucker played in the rain, though.
Incidently, When I saw the Allmans with Doctor John (Turkey Trip) Dicky played a Stratocaster. The only time I ever saw him with one. They were good, but it just was not the same.
Sorry again for the rant, but.....great times.
I would mention Richard Betts "Highway Call" again as good listening.
Lefty
Dekley D-10
Sho-Bud LDG[This message was edited by Lefty on 04 March 2004 at 02:01 PM.][This message was edited by Lefty on 04 March 2004 at 04:30 PM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Mar 2004 2:22 pm

i was lucky to have seen the Allmans back in 71 in Virginia Beach
Memorable !
worn out vinyls:Idlewild South, Fillmore and Eat a Peach
(still got'em)

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 4 Mar 2004 3:46 pm

The Bros were a revelation to me. I was pretty well into the Dead at the time and accepted that hard-core creativity and improv was sometimes (well, often) at the expense of tightness, cohesion, solid groove. The Bros played an outdoor concert in Central Park. I sat on a hill and took in a freebie. I couldn't believe that not only was the music every bit as tight as the studio recordings, but it was 10X more alive and breathing. No compromise, no trade offs.
Duane and Dickie nailing it just like Live at the Fillmore. Raised the bar big time for what I expected from a live performance.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 6 Mar 2004 4:14 am

I believe "Midnight Rider" was one of the songs that got me interested in pedal steel. I thought it was a pedal steel for years (Maybe Jerry Garcia) until I read that it was Dicky on guitar doing that solo and the PSG licks. That song still sounds as good today (well, most of them do).
I always thought "Please call Home" was one of the best blues songs I ever heard. That Idlewile South album is hard to beat.
Lefty
Dekley D-10
Sho-Bud LDG

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 6 Mar 2004 9:31 am

I always thought "Please call Home" was one of the best blues songs I ever heard.

Fantastic tune. Duane's lead fill work between Gregg's vocal lines is one of the best examples of Duane's uniqueness as a player that I can think of.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 7 Mar 2004 8:18 am

FWIW, I think "Melissa" was played in an open
E tuning.

Chip