Steve Earl-Taliban Song?

Martin Abend · Post by **Martin Abend** » 25 Jul 2002 12:37 pm

errrr, Hello? Murder Ballads are a whole genre, there are so many that you wouldn't succeed to name them all. I just can't understand why there's such a fuzz about this song... this discussion is ridiculous.

BTW, my favourite Murder Ballad is "13" by Glen Danzig, done by Johnny Cash... I pray you don't look at me, I pray I don't look back.... uaaahahaha... (shiver)...

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martin abend Pedal-Steel in Germany
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 | Regal RD45 | fender hotrod deluxe

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 25 Jul 2002 2:10 pm

The subject of this thread is about a traitor who shot at United States soldiers during war time, a man who turned his back on his country and took up arms against his country.[This message was edited by Larry Miller on 25 July 2002 at 03:30 PM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 25 Jul 2002 3:20 pm

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 25 Jul 2002 5:36 pm

This story has certainly gotten its share of ink in the newspapers and magazines and a slew of electrons on the internet. Why not document the story in a song? Assuming Earle endorses anything is presumptious at best. Whether you do or don't appreciate his art is your opinion and your priviledge. However, I will defend his right to report the story in his song. It's called the first amendment and it's the basis of much of our freedom . . . John Wayne or no John Wayne.

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 25 Jul 2002 7:23 pm

DAVEY...DAVEY CROCKETT...KING OF THE WILD FRONTIER. BORN ON A MOUNTAIN TOP IN TENNESSEE..............

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 25 Jul 2002 8:13 pm

Actually, he wasn't, Earl
Crockett was born 10 years before TN was even a state. He was born near Knoxville, but, at the time, it was part of the Carolina Territory. I don't believe North Carolina (Nawth Ca'linah) was even a state when he was born in 1786.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 25 Jul 2002 9:56 pm

"i was born to die by the gun" Johnny Porter
on the Ry Cooder Borderline album

i consider that there are better subjects to sing about rather than our Walker Taliban.
(i have'nt heard the tune and don't consider it vital)
i prefer listening to "the ballad of Ira Hayes"
Steelin'France

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 25 Jul 2002 11:22 pm

How about a few songs about our "patriotic" CEO corporate brethren. That kid made some really bad decisions, these other guys, from Chuck Keating on up to Kenny boy, Cheney and beyond ripped off thousands of people, destroyed companies and peoples lives. I think your anger is misdirected.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Jul 2002 5:20 am

Robert Earl Keen
"Whenever Kindness Fails"

So I shot them down, one by one
And left them 'long the rails
I only use my gun
Whenever kindness fails

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 26 Jul 2002 7:33 am

Larry,thanks for the history lesson...I did not know that.

For the sake of not being politically correct...
DAVY...DAVY CROCKETT...KING OF THE WILD FRONTIER. BORN ON A MOUNTAIN TOP IN THE CAROLINA TERRITORY...........

[This message was edited by Earl Erb on 26 July 2002 at 04:43 PM.]

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 26 Jul 2002 3:38 pm

I was in a band on Bainbridge Island [circa79-83] called "Willy & The Tailgaters". Willy Clark was born and lived a
long time in Texas. Later moved to San Francisco and eventually to Seattle area.

Our gigs consisted of 50/50 original and other's songs.

The lead guitar player in the group was Scott Taylor [only native Washingtonian].
He and Willy wrote, together and sololy,
all of the original songs. These guys submitted one song each in the National Songwriters Competition in 1980. We cut some tracks for a 45 in May of 1980, just when
Mt St Helens blew her lid.

This was around the time when "Urbane Cowboy"
and John Revolting hit the silver screen.

Awhile later, Scott penned his 4th place song in the NSC, "It Takes
More Than A Hat To Make A Cowboy".

Willy's entry recieved an honorable mention with, "Let's Get The Cowboys Out Of The Bedrooms, And Back On They're Horses Again.

I was really in my rookie years on steel, but these guys liked me enough to be part of this great band.

Anyway, ya'll should hear these 2 great songs sometime.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 26 Jul 2002 4:21 pm

"..I left their cheating, scheming bones in Miller's Cave...".

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 26 Jul 2002 5:00 pm

But we can't please all the Liberals. Steve missed his chance to capitalize on Timothy Mcveys popularity

Mcvey was one of the Right Wing "homeboys".

J.W. Lindh was a Taliban, not Al Qaeda; Al Qaeda is the guys that took out the Towers. Personally, I thought we should have killed all of them for trashing the Buddhas. Anyway, we didn't get Bin Laden and we didn't get Mullah Omar so we're directing our anger at him. Also, you remember the Intelligence Community saying how hard it was to infiltrate the Taliban,( the FBI was investigating Pee Wee Herman, a known masturbator), and a teenage American gets in. Doesn't look like we tried too hard.[This message was edited by chas smith on 26 July 2002 at 09:10 PM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 26 Jul 2002 5:14 pm

[quote]Sad when songwriters run out of material ain't it.[quote/]

Kind of like your views on anything that doesn't fit your "America Love It (jes like me) Or Leave It" approach hey James?

Repeat after me, "it's a song, not an endorsment of a product or a way of life."

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 26 Jul 2002 5:19 pm

I WAS WALTZING WITH MY DARLING TO THE NORTH CAROLINA TERRITORY WALTZ.. WHEN AN OLD FRIEND I HAPPENED TO SEE......

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Jul 2002 6:31 pm

Right...it's a song, and not an endorsement. But, as I said earlier...all politics aside, it's a sucky song. The singing (and I use that word loosely) is sucky, and the structure and rhyme is sucky. This just isn't what I had thought I'd ever hear sold as a "song" to be played on the radio. It is the type of stuff I'd expect to hear as a parody on Saturday Night Live, or on In Living Color.

The Kingston Trio's Tom Dooley is Grand Opera compared to this.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 27 Jul 2002 6:44 pm

Yeah, but that's a matter of opinion isn't it. Personally I think that Steve is a great performer and songwriter, but that's simply my opinion.

When this topic opened Chris Schlotzhauer
suggested we "put ol' Steve in the same boat as Alec Baldwin and Tom Cruise and ship him out!"... but of course he hadn't even heard the song at that point, but outrage came from the article more than anything.

Michael Holland was quick to make the comparison between Chris' ship 'em out comment and that of a hardline religion's approach to anyone who appeared to have a different viewpoint. "EXPEL the INFIDELS who would dare disagree with us! : Momar Mohammed, Al Qaeda"
Sounds kind of similar?, yes Michael I couldn't agree more.

Bob Hempker's comments, for example "Steve Earle, and many like him, are nothing but glorified "Garage Bands." and "This crap is just plain Bad Music. It's loud, out of tune, and just plain Crap. I haven't heard this Taliban thing, nor do I care about his political views, but if what he does is music, I'm a blind astronaut."
So really it's another issue of taste, you don't like it, so it's no good.
Great, thanks for that Bob, I'll file it under stuff that Bob Hempker doesn't like.

Retcop/James Hall as usual weighs in with a overwraught emotion packed and misdirected comment about those who were killed in the terrorist action.
But Retcops really sums up someone's career with "Bottom line a piece of Shit draws nothing but $hitflies."
Okay James, thanks for that insightful look at Steve.
The rant picks up a little speed with "As I excersise my freedom of speech I agree with letting him have his. One difference tho,I am not selling mine. This is still a free Country even if Steve's Subjets of writing would like to change that for us."

This again follows the assumption that Steve Earle is selling out his country (no), and that Steve Earle would like to make America more of a restrictive religous state than it already is. Now, why would a guy who likes to sing freely and enjoys a drink want to do that.

James, you reserve your right to judge Steve Earle and his actions, I reserve the right to question your petty attacks on Steve Earle's character and motivation.

Why don't you write songs about things like Cancer, child abuse, spousal abuse and so on?
Maybe you have... please tell me about them if you have.

My remark about you being of the "America, love it or leave it" ilk, stems from this comment you made: "If Steve Earle likes to take his show on the road he ought to take it to Cuba, Guantanamo Bay to be exact.He could sing it to his subject matters the Taliban themselves."

Personally I imagine the Taliban would find the song a mockery and would like to kick Steve's butt, they are against music of a non-religous nature and any of their prayers used in a commercial song would be most offensive. I think Steve would know that as well, just because a fellow likes to partake in certain substances, that doesn't make him blind to facts.

Larry Miller, we have actually communicated off the Forum and you have helped me with my research in a most gracious and generous way more than once, however I have to disagree with "The subject of this thread is about a traitor who shot at United States soldiers during war time, a man who turned his back on his country and took up arms against his country".

I really don't think it is. It's about a song Steve Earle wrote, there is a difference. The fellow you are referring to is a subject of a song, which I might add would seem quite obvious he's trying not to glorify.
That seems to be most people's problem with the post (aside from the fact that some here seem to resent the popularity of Steve Earle and simply just don't like his music and they've found a place to bitch about it); is that they think the song is a glory song and that Earle is supporting the actions of a particular side.

I still think it's a song about a character's viewpoint, it just happen's that this one was inspired by real life events.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Jul 2002 5:37 am

Jason...have you heard it?

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 28 Jul 2002 6:11 am

Donny no, I don't work for Steve Earle or his record company so I don't access to his unreleased masters.
Even the original poor excuse for journalism that started this whole sorry topic mentioned that the track was yet to be released.

As with most other people's replies, I was going by what was posted here previously.

The track is from his forthcoming new album, Jerusalem, (currently scheduled to be released 24 September 2002). Emmylou Harris is also featured on the set, but on a totally different song.

Speaking of patriotism, here's some from Steve Earle:
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In describing, Jerusalem, Steve Earle's newest CD and his sixth album in six years, Earle says, "This is a political record because there seems no other proper response to the place we're at now. But I'm not trying to get myself deported or something. In a big way this is the most pro-American record I've ever made. In fact, I feel URGENTLY American. I understand why none of those congressmen voted against The Patriot Act, out of respect for the Trade Center victims' families. I've sat in the death house with victims' families, seen them suffer. But this is an incredibly dangerous piece of legislation. Freedoms, American freedoms, things voted into law as American freedoms, everything that came out of the 1960's, are disappearing, and as any patriot can see, that has to be opposed."

"John Walker's Blues, which deals with John Walker Lindh, the erstwhile Marin County teenager and admitted Taliban fighter. Opening with the lines, "just an American boy, raised on MTV…I seen all the boys in the soda pop bands and none of them looked like me" and finishing with a recitation of Sura 47, Verse 19 of the Qur'an, Earle wrote the song as the newspapers clamored for Walker to strung up for treason. For Steve, the issue was a little more complicated than that.

"I'm happy with the way the song came out, but I'm nervous, not for myself, but I have taken some serious liberties with Walker, speaking as him, in his voice. I'm trying to make clear that wherever he got to, he didn't arrive there in a vacuum. I don't condone what he did. Still, he's a 20 year-old kid. My son Justin is almost exactly Walker's age. Would I be upset if he suddenly turned up fighting for the Islamic Jihad? Sure, absolutely. Fundamentalism, as practiced by the Taliban, is the enemy of real thought, and religion too. But there are circumstances. Walker was from a very bohemian household, from Marin County. His father had just come out of the closet. It's hard to say how that played out in Walker's mind. He went to Yemen because that's where they teach the purest kind of Arabic. He didn't just sit on the couch and watch the box, get depressed and complain. He was a smart kid, he graduated from high school early, the culture here didn't impress him, so he went out looking for something to believe in."

What happened on 9/11 was a horror, what happens every day in Israel and Palestine can be a horror. But you try to see past that. You have to believe this will be better. To some redemption, I'm someone who has always wanted to believe. I'm good at it."

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Peace be with you all.
J

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Jul 2002 11:08 am

I'm impressed that some of you guys still refer to NYC as part of the USA !

Bob

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 28 Jul 2002 3:01 pm

Retcop/James, why is your patriotism so much better than Steve Earles?[This message was edited by Jason Odd on 28 July 2002 at 04:35 PM.]