<SMALL>Music is just a language to communicate with God.</SMALL>
I could also as easily state that music is a language for God to speak to all of us irrespective of our spoken language
Belezebub didn't need to play the organ or pans pipes to lead us astray, he was much more effective using words.
These were sometimes coupled to music, but not always
The rockin' roll many often in the past, and some still in the present,
thought of as the devils music, actually can be sourced to one measure of a Bach liturgical organ piece.
The 1 3 5 6 7 6 5 3 1 the classic rock n roll line was written by Bach,
and undoubtedly put in some proto-rocker, boogie woogie or ragtimers's head from a church service. Go figure.
It was only later when it contributed to, "quelle horreur" DANCING, and rebellious youth,
with words added to it that this bit of music was demonized as leading to perdition. Though not by all.
This same rockin' roll music, has now become country music : another go figure.
As to the dog ears...
Well music is sound : i.e.. vibrations in the air, that humans can perceive.
Now all of existence as we know it is OUR perceptions of vibrations.
From the 4.5 beat per second beat frequency of the background radiation of the universe,
through the sub sonic of thunder,
and the audio bandwidth of humans, then animals,
and off into the visual spectrum,
then faster still to the spectrums of invisible light and then radiation.
Eventually we get to vibrations so small and imperceptible, or even unimaginable for some, they pass through even the sub-particles of atoms within all our bodies and all matter. Pretty heavy huh?
Now this must be somewhat miraculous in of itself.
But as the work of God it would seem conceivable.
It would also be easy to believe he has given us the faculties to add to our knowledge of our(his) world as perceived by us, and that in of itself doesn't invalidate him (or her) or works ascribe in his name.
If we say God is everywhere and everything, and is looking at all and is still alive,
then ALL world religions might just be here because he intends them to be there.
For what reasons you might ask?
Well how about so we can learn. If there is no other opinions or view points then we learn nothing. If we make no mistakes we learn nothing.
If all was homoginized and the same then we would never have progress, Gutenburg would never have printed the 1st bibles, and we wouldn't care because we all would all still be in the woods eating grubs and shoots.
He has made man and some higher animals with the ability to learn and improve out lives and make mistakes too.
To compare A and B and come up with C6, if you will.
He has given man an exceptionally high capacity for storing, assimilating and passing on information : which incidentally is all by vibrations.
I was taught that 50-60% of all religions are essentially saying the same things;
delineating a working philosophy of how to live life and get along with other beings in our world.
The problems between religions comes when the other 40-50% of each religion has changed from the central essence, due to many factors:
cultural, geographic, linguistic, time-based,
and not to be minimized, the hand of man as this information is passed along etc.
Can anyone say Lucifer hasn't put his pitchfork into the mix over time?
Just stirring the linguistic pot, using the prejudices or misunderstanding of individual men to change the true, or at least original words?
So religions have diverged over time. How else can Belfast be such a mess, and yet all profess to be good christians.
Even within the U.S. evangelical communities there is divergence, let alone between Confucianism and Lutheranism.
As to Budhism or Hinduism being the worship of a dead prophet, I must disagree. How can the prophet be dead if Buhdism means continuous reincarnation?
He or she must now still be alive, in another form.
Sure some of the people who are quote are no longer around
in their original bodies, but they have moved on.
Is the concept of going to heaven for a true christian believer, all that much different than being recycled and sent back a better being several times, until finally you get it right and go to a heaven like place?
But if the basic message is the same, where lies the harm?
It is the superficial differences overlaid on the "other" religion that are what most believers find wrong.
Since not all churches use the same bible translations,
each from square one is diverging in someway.
Is the Good News any less valid then the King James.
For me no, for some absolutely.
<SMALL>I Corinthians 14:40; it says, "Let all things be done decently and in order." If there is something about a particular religion that you do not like, chances are it is not decent, nor is it in order.</SMALL>
Interesting quote.
But I might add that : it just might be your time, place and culture make the understand of this other religion too difficult or impossible for you.
Yet in another milleu it is perfectly decent and in order.
Who are we to judge; that's God's work not ours :
especially if he has a total overview and is still around.
To demonize another religion, as men, then we might be ignoring God's decision and reasoning to have this other religion and non believers here.
I have discussed many topics with my friend Rick McDuffie.
One thing I have always enjoyed about his posts, and our private communications,
is that he is both educated and yet still searching and has not closed his mind as a means to strengthen his faith. I appreciate that.
I have stated, as Archie has also, that the Bible may not be 100% accurate " as a historical document", but I don't think that diminishes it as a object for faith,
or as a superb learning tool for life.
Some here have denigrated philosophers as anti-christian, but I find the Bible one of the great philosophical documents extant.
There are good preachers and bad preachers, the best I have encountered were the best at making this biblical philosophy for living life clear and usable for their parishioners.
In turn they received friendship and a reasonable living for themselves and their families. A fair and equitable arrangement.
I have seen others swollen with the greed of mammon and imagining they are doing greater works by dividing peoples in the name of their individual interpretation of the Bible. Delving into the political sphere, not letting Caesar be Caesar and God be God, but trying to combine both.
I will always choose for the preacher who is working one on one,
or one to 100 personally, and for the benefit of each whom he really knows as a person.
Archie has not decided a specific view of God is credible to him, and feels in the minority, but that may just be God working in a different way. He did think enough to start this discussion , which could be God moving in mysterious ways.
Why are we here? this is the question of the ages.
Neither science nor theology has answered that one. Nor is likely too.
Some would say natural selection is counter to the Bible,
but I tend to think is is God's hand letting us collect information pass it on, learn and grow, physically and mentally.
Just because this was not observable at the TIME the Bible was written,
doesn't make it incorrect. He has now allowed us to learn about it.
If he is all around, and all seeing, all knowing, then this would clearly be his doing, his plan. Implemented at his speed.
<SMALL>What is time to a God who always has been and always will be? Simple answer, there is none.</SMALL>
A very astute observation.
We on earth think of Time as we perceive our world.
But a year on Pluto is much longer than our year.
A year for our Sun to do a circuit of it's own must be beyond numbers.
Or if it is simple a linear arc in space, then how do you judge a year?
So, who's to say what God's day is like.
If only one preacher tells me "this is the absolute time of God's day" ;
a single earth day for example,
I would bring that into question, because of faith, not lack of it.
And because of the many differences in the religions, I would look for the answer in many, and search out the common thread in all.
Cutting out the cant and ritual differences, leaving the common unadorned concept.
If we accept God as all encompassing then he is down to the smallest fastest vibration in the universe and all it's harmonic interactions and resonances from there on up.
So music appreciation and creation must be our brains response to a total structure of the universe as put in place by God, and perceived by men.
Great music is more in tune with the organizational structure of this work.
<SMALL>Jesus (there's that pesky old bible again) tells us not to waste time on those who refuse to hear, but to kick the dust from our sandals and move on.</SMALL>
I will note that there are those who refuse to hear because they believe only in a single translation / interpretation of Jesus's word. While others will read from many sources and still be faithful.
"Creation Science" has reared it's head without stating it's name.
Normal science has proved more factual data pertaining to the bible than has be brought into question, and most of the question is simply a matter of time line, not if it happened or not.
The "Creation Science" that I have seen, seems determined to prove ALL facts stated in the Bible are 100% accurate.
For some this seems a necessary addendum to their faith, but I find it supurflous to the intent and best use of the Bible. It just confuses the issue and can be seen as either unprovable or just poor empirical science, not worthy of the name science.
The Bible can stand on it's own without this.
Carbon dating is not accurate for short time spans, but for the long times of all of history the margin of error is negligable.
But it is possible for any give scientist to do a poor carbon dating technique in practice.
But to say ALL carbon dating is incorrect because one cat was misdated is spurious at best.
I my view is that carbon dating was given us by God as another technique to learn more about his works.
Well Rick.. LOL, here I am, back from St Louis
So many topics and sub topics here to choose from.
David M. I have always found the stimulation of the brain by music an interesting phenomenon. As a set of vibrations percieved by most humans as a way of communicating, it must be quite in tune with the universe as we observe it, and therefor a good way to train the brain to see and react well in our worlds.
When I had my very young god daughter living with me and her father for 2 years (6m -2.5y), we made a point of playing good music for her at most times. But not just one type.
Breakfasts were often Fats Waller and simpler jazz, lunch was usually classical like Lizt or Motzart piano concertos and Dvorak etc. And dinners were often Bill Monroe and Bela Fleck etc. It was an effort to entrain her with a good sonic logic for her developing brain stricture.
She has a pretty logical mind now, though it's sometimes hard to tell with teenagers.
And yes, I am a godfather and stood up in a church and agreed to aid in the spiritual development of a child. I have sent her C.S. Lewis to read among others. And I had her come down to the steel jam we had last July. She liked it.
I saw John Hughey playing some high notes last week with the Time Jumpers. It was very enjoyable, but didn't inspire me to fetishy thoughts. LOL.
Nor do piccolos LOL.
Well I am sure a few here now pity me because they disagree strongly with my take on theology, that's your problem not mine.
And others applaude me for saying my piece.
So to sum up:
Each person has their relationship with their diety in their own personal way, whether it is achingly close, or at a much greater distance obscured with clouds of doubt.
Or in some cases not any relationship at all, even if THAT it's self could actually be a relationship from another's perspective...
For those in which is very close, try to think that the others are far away,
or just different, because it's GODs plan, and it is right... for them.
It clearly isn't for you.
Peace to you all.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 20 September 2004 at 03:02 AM.]</p></FONT>
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it! ~ Yogi Berra
