Vocalists from hell!

Dave A. Burley · Post by **Dave A. Burley** » 31 Dec 2004 10:31 am

I have related before the time that Julian Tharpe and Jimmy Bryant were backing up the well known Opry star during a 1976 show at the old Hall Of Fame motel in Nashville...
Jeannie missed the intro, stopped and looked at Julian and asked him if he could get it right next time.
Julian looked up at her, set his bar on his strings, gave the bar a big shove and it went bouncing off the stage with Julian right behind it.
Dave Burley

Daryl Stogner · Post by **Daryl Stogner** » 31 Dec 2004 10:55 am

I always loved it when we knew what was coming, before one of these gals was brought up onstage. Sometimes it was just worth a chuckle, othertimes, I'd always have to cringe thru a song or two.

But what got me, one night (the gal had no sense of timing at all, besides thinking she was a Bonnie Owens sound-a-like) was when the song ended, she announced to the crowd how the band had messed her song up!

The next set, we played her song again with a "SEE WE KNOW THE DAMNED SONG!"

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 31 Dec 2004 11:50 am

The Paul Anka and Buddy Rich stuff is just the tip of the iceberg. I remember doing a gig with Chuck Berry and he fired the (very good) drummer in the middle of the set, never could figure out why. He finished the show without a drummer.

Then there was the show on the waterfront in Seattle with Ricky Lee Jones - she walked off the stage in the middle of a song because a ferry coming in blew its horn. She then refused to go back on stage until somebody stopped the ferries 'til the show was over. As it turned out, it already was.

Don't even get me started on Frankie Valli or the late great Ray Charles!

Mean people suck (nice people lick).

dg

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 31 Dec 2004 2:15 pm

I guess we should also include a few of the stars who are pure saints when a band member throws in a sour one or two.

I filled in for a harmonica player when the wonderful Pearl Bailey played in Toronto in the mid seventies. I was as nervous as a horny tom cat not only because of who she was but, because her back up band were all well known musicians in the world of jazz and blues at that time.

Sure enough, during our afternoon run throughs I hit a couple of sour notes and sucked when I should have been blowing. Being the beautiful and most gracious of all ladies, she came over to me and smiled at me and asked me to sit with her and do a solo back up while she sang. There was not one word mentioned of my mistakes nor was there a single word of correction spoken. Ten minutes later the other band members started to join in and everything fell into place like a dream.

There are some beautiful stars out there who would never think of ripping at one of their back up band members.
[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 31 December 2004 at 02:16 PM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 31 Dec 2004 4:38 pm

Great point Les, not all of the frontline folk are from the dark side to be certain, as this true story will attest:

My very first "big-time" gig with the sound company was a jazz gig at Reed College a long time ago with saxophone legends Jim Pepper and Sonny King. The way they could blow those cats didn't have to be nice to anyone.

They had suggested that I bring a guitar rig along and invited me up to sit in on Pepper's famous "Witchee Tai Toe" (which they both knew was one of my favorite songs of all time) and I was so nervous when they gave me a solo that I practically pooped all over myself, fumbling for notes, trying to find ANYTHING, sounding all the way B-A-D bad.

Instead of giving me dirty looks, cutting me off or laughing, Sonny looked over at me with an enthusiastic look of encouragement and shouted "Yeah, GO for it, man!" That was all it took to let the dogs out, as it were, and I had a ball from there on out, they even gave me an extra time around for good measure.

As someone once said, the true test of character is how you treat those who really CAN'T do anything for you at all.

dg

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 31 Dec 2004 8:14 pm

Dave and Les, you guys got it right. We all know about those guys whose bands are like music "boot camps," and the bandleader's memories of what he used to be give him self-endowed absolute freedom to say, or treat, band members as he wishes. (See Rich, Buddy, or Anka, Paul). But those bosses who put out the good musicians encourage them, cause every body knows that a musician who don't make no mistakes, ain't trying for something new! And on a personal note, ain't NOBODY gonna talk to me the way Rich berated that trombone player! At least, not to my face. And if Anka's the only important person on stage, why isn't he doing a solo act?
In the bluegrass world, Jimmy Martin is known to be a taskmaster--so's Doyle Lawson, and that's a FACT! But neither of these guys resort to name-calling. Screaming, even firing, but cussing a man and calling him names??? Not as long as Jiffy Lube is hiring!![This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 31 December 2004 at 08:14 PM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 1 Jan 2005 8:55 am

the bandleader's memories of what he used to be...

What you said....

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 1 Jan 2005 9:28 am

* [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 20 January 2005 at 10:29 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 1 Jan 2005 11:53 am

I was talking to our drummer last night, and I told him I'd print him off a copy of the BR rant. We got to talking about it. He said that what struck him about Buddy Rich's performances is that they were always flawless.

After re-listening to both clips, I"m thinking even more that they were both right.

The bands had probably been trying to get under BR's skin, miscuing, making up parts, and in general wearing away at him.

In Anka's case a guy showed up to a top gig wearing a T-Shirt, and the band was taking an ending cue from a guy that didn't have a clue.

Both tapes went into detail about what they thought the problems were and addresssed them as directly as anybody could ask.

Nobody seemed to have any questions for either guy. Maybe though they were all wanting to talk at once, and decided to wait for the other guys... Maybe they were all afraid of them.

Maybe they were both right..

Probably a lot of losers at the time after they both weren't around told everybody " I shoulda ripped his head off", or a lot of gutless wonders say at this time, " I'd never work for a guy like that." or " Boy I'd really have kicked his ass," but I noticed that nobody seemed to have any questions, left, or had the balls to stand up.

That, I don't respect in whining, backstabbing musicians. I don't see how anybody could.

Me? No doubt that I couldn't cut a gig like that, that demanded perfection. Hell, I can't even sight read music for my instrument.

There's always another side to the story.

Either way, Buddy Rich, and Paul Anka were the only ones whose names and music we remember. They knew it was going to be that way too.

I'm not saying they were right, as we only heard one side of the story besides some pathetic trombone player whining, growing a beard against BR's direction, and acting like a little girl.

If I'd have had any questions, I'd have stood up and asked them, or kept my mouth shut. Or gotten off the bus.

Probably a lot of the band members thought they were right on the money too. There are unpopular flakes in every band.

Just another take.

"The guys get SHIRTS, and that's just the blanking way it is." "Don't turn me into a maniac here..." BBWWWAHAhahaha.

"WHERE'S JOHN?.."

I loved it..

EJL
[This message was edited by Eric West on 01 January 2005 at 02:07 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 1 Jan 2005 5:43 pm

"Probably a lot of losers at the time after they both weren't around told everybody " I shoulda ripped his head off", or a lot of gutless wonders say at this time, " I'd never work for a guy like that." or " Boy I'd really have kicked his ass," but I noticed that nobody seemed to have any questions, left, or had the balls to stand up."

"If I'd have had any questions, I'd have stood up and asked them, or kept my mouth shut. Or gotten off the bus."

OK, Eric, which side of the plate you batting from? Yeah, the trombone player's a wimp-pure and simple. He should have made a mess of Mr. Rich's face, and then actually STOPPED the bus(you DID notice the bus driver never geard down to stop, didn't you?) and gotten off. Buddy Rich is dead, but when's the last time anybody ever made ANY kind of fuss over him? Or Paul Anka?Gimme a break. Two spoiled, washed-up has-beens, who take their frustrations out on band members on their first or second gigs. You know anybody ever talked to band members like that? Ever turned down a job working for someone like that? I've been fired from bands, especially when I knew the bottle better than the music, but I was never talked to like that. You ever get screamed at by a band leader, or construction foreman, or, let's see, an expediter?
And, FWIW, our drummer told me years ago that Rich played the same solo every time he was on the Carson show. I can't tell, I'm a stupid guitar player.[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 01 January 2005 at 05:47 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 1 Jan 2005 6:26 pm

Well Mr Gambrell.

A lot of it is in the history books.

Doing a Google Search for this abused master Trombonists, I find that this Ass Chewing™ he took from Mr Rich was as famous as he ever got.

Both you AND I come up with more "hits" than this guy. Not to mention "b0b".

Check out the Buddy Rich sites.

Which side of the plate?.

I'm heterosexual if that's what you mean.

That ONE summer in cub scouts has always cast a shadow on my life, and it's DARNED UNFAIR.

Buddy Rich in the 50s with Cougat, Hampton, and all the others put out more perfect music than most of us have even listened to.

Paul Anka?

I don't see his name in the Hall of Hackdom.

THe Star IS the Star.

What's wrong with going nuts over people that call themselves "top shelf orchestra members" getting a facefull for showing up in a T Shirt? What's wrong with getting the whole pit band to end the song ON CUE? and whoever is picking his or her nose instead of Cueing, when the song ends getting a severe upbraiding for same. I noticed the guy copped to it like a man, and apologized.

A couple things I learned in my 25 years of sobriety is that I don't need to be drunk to stand toe to toe and scream right back at them IF I'm in the right.

If I'm in the wrong, I'm man enough to take it. I don't go around meeping about how I "coulda kicked his ass" either.

I've been severely yelled at. I made a decision while working a high dollar high pressure paving show to take whatever was in my face to get the loan to my house.

I did. For three years.

The guy that I got my best ass chewings from on the paving crew made Buddy Rick and Paul Anka look like Mr Rogers. He'd stop the bus himself. You could get hurt to, though I never did.. When I was right, I learned to yell back. Then I finally got some respect.

The day in Oct my loan cleared and went to escrow I walked in and calmly announced that the high emotions and yelling were over.

A half a year, later, it happened again, and I parked my 8 axle paving truck with 34 tons of hot mix in it, and went home. I got full unemployment, a good reference, ,my 401K in cash, and nevr looked back. No more screaming.

On the way home I flipped a coin as to if I'd be back. The coin came up heads, and I stayed gone.

Since that time, in my latest heavy const job, I've had a couple guys step up and try, and I told them that if I'd hired them to chew my ass, that they'd be out looking for a job. I giggle and walk away shaking my head.

I no longer get that "pit of the stomach" feeling when somebody yells at me. I just asess it for what it is, and whether it poses more of a threat to my safety than a trachoe slipping towards me on a lowboy. Seldom does it.

I had to learn to stand up for myself in music as well as construction, because NOBODY will do it for you. Those clips show that loud and clear.

A lot of bands get off on winding a guy like that up with continually dripping low level sophomoric **** . With BR, it sure looks like they pulled too much of it on the wrong guy. I was laughing the whole way through.

Whoever thought that taping it would make people like me see that he was a low level hack and tyrant missed the mark. I was struck on how nobody but some dweeby australian trombone player that NEVER went ANYWHERE thought to talk back to him.

Like I said, do a google on both of them. You'll see how much "fuss" Buddy Rich deserves. A hell of a lot more than I will ever get, that's for sure. His bands were the BEST.

I actually take very little nonsense anymore.

The guitar player that has been trying my patience the last month or so finally went off and broke the drummers arm last nite, and now he's history. I told him to sober up the last time he got in mine. He found somebody else to pick on.

I played in a backup band for Hank Thompson years ago, and though the band did better I'm sure than a lot of those that did the same gigs, he was VERY gentlemanly and insisted we get paid in CASH out of his T shirt money, and let us hang in his ACed motor home and visit with him as long as we wanted. I'm sure he'd had HIS moments too when he had a high pressure top slot in the business.

I was hit the same way initially by the two clips.

Then I got to thinking. There was obviously a lot more to it.

Also, I Can't Sight Read, and ould have little defense against a bandleader like that.

I never try to say that I'm something that I'm not.

A low level bush league pedal steel player that's played a lot of gigs. Some good, some, well...

At least tonite, I won't be playing against a turd with a telecaster in his hands..

SG, it's just my take on it. I find it all too easy to "pile on".

EJL

Matter of fact, the last paving job I had with Pamplin's Paving Company ended with me going home too. I reminded the boss that he needed hobos to work the kind of show he was running, and that I wasn't one. I'm sure he ended up hiring some more.

A guy's gotta know when to quit. That was my failing for a number of years. Misplaced Loyalty.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 1 Jan 2005 7:22 pm

"At least tonite, I won't be playing against a turd with a telecaster in his hands..
SG, it's just my take on it. I find it all too easy to "pile on"."

OK, no more "piling on." Especially by a "turd with a Telecaster."
Mr. Lundgren, I'm no more a "turd with a Telecaster," than you are a homosexual. Let's get that one out in the open---Don't call me names, or make veiled references, dig?
You mention Rich's great music in the 50's. And it was---IN THE 50'S!!! The aforementioned trombone player(whose name I didn't get off the tape, BTW), was also writing charts---that much I COULD hear.
AWWW, nuts to this.. I ain't arguing on the Forum with somebody who's got an axe to grind, anyway.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, from one of the little guys.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 2 Jan 2005 4:00 am

Jeez Steve. I was just kidding about the "plate" thing.. I thought my Cub Scout Confession™ was kind of comical.

Th "turd with the telecaster" was Artie Bechtel" who threw one of his fits and severely broke our drummer's arm last night.

He's "off the bus", and on his way back to where ever he came from I'd reckon. I have a dozen other friends that play great tele. My favorite kind of guitar.

Buddy Rich made a lot of music and was known for his perfection. It comes at a price to be sure. I still laugh my ass off listening to the whole thing.

Ease up.

Nobody's picking on you.

Happy New Year back atcha..

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 02 January 2005 at 04:22 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 Jan 2005 10:31 am

Lemme get this straight, now Mr. Lundgren---you play in a truck stop, with a guitar player who breaks peoples' arms, YOU enjoy turning up loud enough to drown out complaints or requests that you don't have tab for----No WONDER you take the bandleader's side! That's enough to make me give up show business!

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 2 Jan 2005 12:32 pm

Have a happy new year Steve.

Don't give up on yourself, or your career.

Certainly not on my account.

I hope Jiffy Lube has a banner year.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 02 January 2005 at 09:24 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 Jan 2005 2:20 pm

And the same to you, sir.

Thanks for the edit, Mr. Lundgren.[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 03 January 2005 at 10:07 AM.]

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 3 Jan 2005 1:18 am

Rose Maddox came to Stockton back in the 70's as a guest artist at one of the big cowboy clubs. She had sent tapes ahead for the band to learn, but they just wrote her off as some old hack and didn't bother to learn her stuff. I was sitting in the 4th row when the drummer, who hadn't gotten one beat right, was leering at some gal instead of paying attention to Rose. She turned around and with the flat of her hand came down really hard on his big cymbal. It startled him so bad, he fell off the drum stool. It scared the daylights outta me and I saw it comin'! Anyhoo, NOBODY took their eyes off her the rest of the show. I felt bad for her because when the band doesn't know your material, you're just hung out to dry. I've had guys assure me that they know the song, and they do, til they get to bridge. I don't have perfect pitch and I can't sing a melody through the wrong chords. I just can't. However, I struggle thru the best I can and I never call that song again with that band. Nobody means to screw up. They felt bad about it, too. And believe me, I can screw up with the best of 'em! So, get over it, it ain't Carnegie Hall. (and even if it was....)

------------------

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 3 Jan 2005 5:54 am

I remember playing a club in Valdosta, GA, back in the eighties, when, after we'd gotten the gear loaded in, the owner said, "BY the way, you guy's will be backing Ferlin Huskey Saturday night!" The bass player and I set about making charts, the keyboard player, a tremendous talent named Ed Synan, learned all the stuff, and the drummer...well, he weren't no Buddy Rich. Saturday night, we did the best we could, 'cept the drummer, who, through his alcoholic haze, couldn't even get the "clippity-clop" thing in "Tumbling Tumbleweeds" going. Result, the band sounded awful, Ferlin was forced to perform with a band he wasn't comfortable with,(nor, truth be told, were we with him!), and we got gipped out of about 600 bucks. I don't think we would have felt so resentful had we been told ahead of time, and we CERTAINLY had no animosity toward Ferlin Huskey, though it must have looked that way---When all EITHER of us was trying to do, was make a living! I must edit this, though, to add that Ferlin and his family were as nice to us as they could be, and, though I'm sure they were disgusted by us all(except Ed, who they tried to hire!), treated us with complete respect.[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 03 January 2005 at 05:58 AM.]

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 3 Jan 2005 9:07 am

I think I have told this one on the Forum before -- but it fits so well in this thread, here it is again. It's the story of the only time in my life I walked off of a bandstand without finishing the gig. I know that is about as unprofessional as one can get -- but I felt it to be justified.

While I was attending College full time and playing whatever local night club gigs I could get, I had a call to sit in with a local yokel on steel for one night to replace his regular guy who was out for some reason. The gig was at the Class C club where they played; the clientel was 90% old drunks, and the crowd was very sparse. The band-leader/singer played upright bass and was so bad that he laced a sheet of paper through the strings near the bridge. It didn't matter what notes he played because all you could hear from the bass was a thump and a buzzing sound. About half way through the night we played a song that just naturally cried for a major seventh as the ending chord. I played the major seventh, and the band leader looked around at the other guys, laughed and said, "He got lost on the very end." Without a word, I got up packed my gear and left. He asked me why I was packing up and I responded with some sarcastic remark along the lines of -- "I can't keep up with you guys without getting lost, so you don't need me."

------------------
Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 03 January 2005 at 09:38 AM.]

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 4 Jan 2005 10:04 am

Roy; I can assure you that you most certainly are not the first or only musician to haul his gear out of a gig. I saw this happen in the middle of a well known country/pop, artist's concert about 10 years ago.

Without dropping any names here, this artist has/had been around for more than just a few years; however, is well known for appearing on stage wired to the hilt. The lead guitarist was the first to pack up then the keyboard player followed about fifteen minutes later after a few open mike insults were laid on him.

The lady who I referred to in this lead in thread was not on a stage at the time, a few of us just dropped in to jam with a blue grass band after their practice. After the first few insults by this babe were laid on the band, I laid my picks and bar down and refused to play any further. I ended up using my chord harmonica because I knew damned well she could not lose me on that thing.

------------------
(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 4 Jan 2005 3:11 pm

I'll bet I know someone who could give her some great harmony.

Well ignore the word great.

------------------
Smiley 15-4 Crank&pull pro model Deluxe with auto string changer.200 ft. roll.