Pedal Steel tone with a 6 string lap ?

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 9 Mar 2016 3:39 pm

Hi guys & gals, long-time lurker, first time poster:
(and as with most 1st-timers, this has probably been covered already, so I apologize up front).

I've got two really nice 6-string lap steels. I've got the blues tone I like out of them both with several different tube amps, and blues-overdrive pedals.

But--Any tricks on getting that classic country Pedal steel crying tone (or as one of y'all posted back years ago, "that sweet Krispy Creme sound") out of a 6-string lap? (I know, get a pedal-steel)
I'm using the bridge pickup over the neck, I'm boosting mid's backing off treble.
One thing I've never owned is a Compressor pedal. Recommended? And what compression pedals do you recommend.
thanks,
Brooks

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 9 Mar 2016 3:59 pm

If you want to cry, you'll need a volume pedal... and some touch... and a lot of practice! Compressors are really just a crutch to get you sustaining before you learn how to use the pedal.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 10 Mar 2016 4:38 am

I find the country pedal steel tone is very bright and crisp with lots of mid and very slight low end.

Just roll your pickup so its really bright get a volume pedal and practice 6th Intervals and moves from the I to the IV chord

Oh you can't forget it needs a splash of reverb.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Mar 2016 4:55 am

If you want to get some good pedal steel tone, an E tuning with a high G# is a good start. You can do pedal-steelish stuff on C6, though. Mastering slants is important for slow stuff. Very quick bar movements that are precise and usually raise or lower from one scale tone to another are extremely important to nail. Lap steel players have a tendency to want to do 1/2 step slides, but pedal steel players generally slide a whole step or 1/2 step as necessary.

I made a quick iphone video yesterday for someone of how I would play the Rainy Day Woman intro (Ralph Mooney). To get that tone, I rolled the mids back a bit and boosted the highs, mainly because I have an .015 E string as my 1st string and I wanted it to sound thinner. This is a little rough, pitchwise, but think of how I am managing the camera....

Rainy Day Woman

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 10 Mar 2016 7:06 am

Thanks all. Stephen, I've owned a Ernie Ball VP for a number of years--its very awkward (for me) with the wide throw. I read somewhere here on an old post that someone put 3/4" dowel 'stop' in their EB pedal at the heel. I would like to try one of the more prefered volume pedals for steel sometime. I hear you about practicing a lot with the pedal extending the crying note and knowing when and when not to. It's an art unto itself.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 16 Mar 2016 4:53 pm

I use Mike Freid's E6th 8 string tuning on my MSA Super Slide with a Hiltin volume pedal and I get a nice pedal steel vibe. I have been working on this for quite sometime thinking if I wanted to sit in a jam or open mic it would be a quick setup. It is fun and challenging.

Joe Kaufman · Post by **Joe Kaufman** » 17 Mar 2016 9:27 am

I think you might be very happily surprised just by changing amps. I would try to plug in to one of the Peavey steel amps (Nashville series) or similar clean machine SS guitar amps like a Special 130. A Rolland Cube could be easier to come by. I think an E6 tuning with high G# and preferably a longer scale all help with that tone. The hands are the one true key though.

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 17 Mar 2016 12:30 pm

E7th with a G# on top, no Volume Pedal through a Vox VT30 Amp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KyLWRZVZV8

James.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 17 Mar 2016 1:15 pm

James, that sounded real good. Is that a seven string or a six. Your vid shows a seven string.

Specifically what I was inquiring about (that I didn't make very clear) is *electronically*, with tone settings, mids, treble, bass, or lack-thereof, amps, volume pedal, what tips can anyone pass on about making a six string lap sound as close to creamy pedal steel. But I do appreciate all that have commented on the tunings, and progressions, slants etc.

for example, so far, turning the mids way up and dialing back the treble and bass has helped a bunch, a little bit of digital delay with some spring reverb, and using the bridge pickup setting as opposed to the neck pickup. I have an old Slingerland Songster (which is awesome for blues), but for this desired tone I'm playing a Duesenberg Fairytale which has three pickup settings, and it has the palm levers which helps a bunch for some (kind of psuedo) 6 and minor bends.

I'm getting close to the sound I want, but still looking for any free silver bullets from y'all that have way more experience than I. thanks!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 17 Mar 2016 1:24 pm

sent you an email.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 17 Mar 2016 1:58 pm

Bill, nothing at my end,
brooksmontgomery at msn dot com

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 17 Mar 2016 2:08 pm

[quote="Brooks Montgomery"]James, that sounded real good. Is that a seven string or a six. Your vid shows a seven string.

Brooks. That was a 7 string, as for the rest of your requirements, my Amp settings change with my mood, nothing is hard and fast, but you are a step ahead of me with Palm Levers.
James.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 18 Mar 2016 9:34 am

If you have a boss me pedal I have some patches for country sounds I can send you.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 18 Mar 2016 10:07 am

Thanks Stefan, but I don't have one. I appreciate the offer and help.

Richard Alderson · Post by **Richard Alderson** » 19 Mar 2016 4:16 pm

Dear Brooks - You talk about getting that pedal steel "crying" sound out of the lap steel. I wonder if you could quote us the title of a song as an example of the kind of sound you are after. An example would give us a clue as to whose style in particular you are referring to. When I read your original post I wondered if you were maybe talking about a technique that is called "bar shiver" used on half notes and whole notes sometimes. Bar shiver has been compared to a "crying" or expressive tone. But the best thing would be to provide a particular song title, and then I think other players will know right away if the type of tone that you are after is produced by either a technique (like bar shiver) or the amp settings, or a certain chord and note sequence, (such as a Dobro tremolo on a descending sequence of two notes, or Tom Brumley's choice of levers and pedals on "Together Again"). Good Luck. Everyone is looking for some kind of tone. I hope the forumites can illuminate your way. There is a ton of wisdom on the forum, that's for sure.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 19 Mar 2016 9:31 pm

Richard,
I'll see if I can find an example of what's in my head --It's the creamy sustain tone as much as any crying tone...and I'm probably trying to get something that's not meant to be got without having more strings (and technique of course). I'm probably trying to get the sound of a Shelby Mustang out of a Ford Falcon 4-banger. I'll youtube around and see if I can find something and make shared sense of my desired tone.
Thanks for reading.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 19 Mar 2016 10:17 pm

OK , here's the tone. I realize that Don is using all kinds of great technique, and there's a ton of stuff going on with the bar and the volume pedal.... As far as that tone goes, that's whats in my head. Impossible with six strings?

http://youtu.be/yYc_8nCRK1Q

And in the small world department, Don and I played together in 1980 with a guy named Bill Hanna, here in Idaho, (The Bill Hanna Band) when we were kids (in our 20's) and Don lived in Missoula. He played sometimes through Leslie speakers making his pedal steel sound like a Hammond B3 (from Mars). Man is he good now. I hope he comes back to Braun Brothers fest in Challis to play again.

Richard Alderson · Post by **Richard Alderson** » 20 Mar 2016 9:46 am

Dear Brooks, that was a great example. Don is playing like John Hughey, who mainly used to be Conway Twitty's pedal steel guitarist. He is definitely using bar shiver/ or over the top vibrato on those high register notes. You could play bar shiver on single notes with any steel guitar, although John's style is famous and his selection of notes and chords are "classic". Regarding the "creamy" texture, first of all the guitar he is playing is part of the story, and he is definitely "thickening" up the sound with a just a little delay, Now that you have provided a clear example, I will let other more experienced voices speak, but you've got John Hughey and some bar shiver going on here, knowing that it's Hughey's style you're after is half of what we seem to be talking about, (his techniques and selection of particular note sequences), the other half is the underlying tone when Don is not doing bar shiver on those high register notes, and that is his guitar, and definitely a little delay thickening things up.

Richard Alderson · Post by **Richard Alderson** » 20 Mar 2016 10:04 am

I have say that in general, if you want to play anything like John Hughey at all, those particular chord and note sequences are impossible without a pedal steel. The underlying "creamy" or "thick" tone can be approximated with the right pick up, guitar, amp with lots of headroom, and delay. Bar shiver can be done on single notes.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 Mar 2016 10:14 am

Two suggestions. First, you can put palm levers on most lap steels. It all depends on how much space you have between the bridge and the end of the body, and whether there are any volume controls or switches in the way. You can buy a Duesenberg Multibender and fit it in minutes. In fact it takes longer to change the strings than the fit the unit.
Second, the sound that mostly separates pedal steels from non-pedal is the ability to raise or lower some strings whilst keeping others at the same pitch. This can be done by using two lap steels, either with two lap steel guitarists, or by recording one part and then the other part separately.
Either way, you're not going to sound like Buddy Emmons.

Mike McBride · Post by **Mike McBride** » 2 Feb 2024 2:56 am

Mike Neer wrote:
I made a quick iphone video yesterday for someone of how I would play the Rainy Day Woman intro (Ralph Mooney). To get that tone, I rolled the mids back a bit and boosted the highs, mainly because I have an .015 E string as my 1st string and I wanted it to sound thinner. This is a little rough, pitchwise, but think of how I am managing the camera....

Rainy Day Woman

Mike - Is this video available somewhere still?

Thanks!

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 2 Feb 2024 5:19 pm

Funny—a thread from 8 years ago. I believe my first.

Mike McBride · Post by **Mike McBride** » 2 Feb 2024 6:17 pm

Brooks Montgomery wrote:Funny—a thread from 8 years ago. I believe my first.

It is a question I have and found this thread on SGF. I think I need a delay pedal. The sound I hear and seek is somewhat like a non-Hammond church organ on slow tunes. I also hear similarities with twin fiddles using harmony voicing.

PS I have borrowed and posted your phrase "A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first " elsewhere without attribution. Please forgive me. No one can own the truth.

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Pedal Steel tone with a 6 string lap ?

Pedal Steel tone with a 6 string lap ?

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