Buddy Emmon's amp

Danny Kuykendall · Post by **Danny Kuykendall** » 19 Sep 2001 9:08 pm

I hear you loud and clear, Bill. I'll work more on the effect and tonation through my hands. Still looking for an amp. This gives me a lot of help in finding one. Appreciate everyone's input & info. Danny

Danny Kuykendall · Post by **Danny Kuykendall** » 20 Sep 2001 9:01 am

Forgot to thank specifically Ernie Renn and Buddy Emmons for taking the time to inquire into the past about the amps used on the two albums. What an honor, getting input from Buddy! Thanks again, Danny

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 20 Sep 2001 9:36 am

I also agree it's mostly in the hands.Buddy will sound good no matter what amp he uses.But have any of you guys seen a top pro using a cheap amp??.I didn't think so!If you think these guys aren't picky about amps then you have rocks in your head.I doubt anyone that responed to this topic has anything cheaper than a Nashville 1000. So should we quit spending our money buying new guitars and amps?Not me.I've heard myself through an early 80's Nashville 400.I've also heard myself through a Web amp and my medium priced rack systems.Trust me I sound better through better amps. --bb

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 20 Sep 2001 9:44 am

Danny,
If you are interested in finding a Standel, you have the Standel repair Guru in your town -- Fullerton. His name is Tim Maag -- 714-447-8364. He repaired my 1970 Emmons Twin Twelve (Standel-made). The amp sounded great, but Mike Cass talked me out of it. I currenlt play a Black-faced 1970 Twin Reverb with an old Sho-Bud 4 ohm JBL installed and an Evans SE150 High Output. But then, don't take any advice from me, because honestly don't know what I am doing. But I will tell you that the tooled tolex on my Evans makes the amp smell better than any amp I have ever had.
Chris Lucker

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 20 Sep 2001 11:05 am

Chris

My intent was not to slam old amps.I'm sitting here with 2 old black face Fenders.The early 80's Nashville I mentioned was just an example of an amp that didn't work for me.I have a 77 model Session 400 that I love.My point, most all steelers that have been playing awhile have a amp or two that we think we sound best through.I can tell you like yours as well.Most are not cheap wheather they are old or new.I dig old amps,if they sound good.
For you folks that are new to PSG,if you are now good enough to get out and play in public and are using an amp that's not really suited for PSG,you might sound better with one of the many amps that the better players use.Then again maybe not."It's (all) in the hands." Good Luck!------bb

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 20 Sep 2001 11:46 am

Furthermore, about the Tolex, Chris.
'Monkey Fur' (Ozite) will never sound as good as Tolex -- tooled or not. Probably doesn't smell as good either -- must admit I haven't had a new Tolex amp in so long I don't remember WHAT it smelled like. Everything I have smells like tobacco smoke and stale beer anyway. Of course, to sound best, it has to be BLACK Tolex and it's even better if it has a rip or two in it.

Bobby, I'm with you on the late 70s Session 400's, pod-nuh.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 20 September 2001 at 12:52 PM.]

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 20 Sep 2001 4:14 pm

Bobby,
I agree with you about the great new or newer amps that are made for pedal steel. As much as I like my Twin Reverb, I do prefer my Evans with my Emmons PP.
And, as a 30 year guitar player I agree with you that it's largely in the hands -- and string tension.
Chris

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 20 Sep 2001 4:57 pm

The Emmons sound is a thing I have been chasing for years. I do believe the hands are 75%-90% of it. The pedal steel is a constant challenge to me, and will be until I die. I finally realized some years ago that trying to find the perfect amp/guitar was fruitless and ever changing, but we still do it. I cannot speak completly objective, because I have allways used a Sho-Bud pedal steel (lefties don't trade often).
My 1971 twin was a good sound, but never had the clean headroom I needed playing out at the time. The Vibrosonic reverb with a 1-15 EVM to me was cleaner, and fuller. I traded it for the Session 500 I still have. It is much more flexable for getting different sounds, tones, and plenty of clean headroom if you need it. I still miss the Vibrosonic though, it had one sound, but a great one.
Don't forget strings, and tension (as mentioned). The old Bill Lawrence, Emmons, and Lashley Extra Lively were my favorites.
I don't know about the new ones, I keep moving around.
Keep on pickin that thing.
Lefty

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 20 Sep 2001 7:05 pm

Danny, I'm happy you apologized to Bill as I cannot recall ever reading a worse pile of crock written about one of the finest gentlemen and steel guitarist I have ever had the privilage to meet and accompany on stage! As far as I am concerned, Bill Stafford is to the pedal guitar what Jerry is to the lap...both have an unbelievable touch and tone on their respective instruments. Bill does not possess an "ego" as you stated. He always had nice words and comments even for a mediocre player like myself. You have obviously never met this man or you would never have insulted him in this manner. Again, I am pleased you had the decency to apologize. Bill's response was so typical..."come on over when you are in his area". If I were you, I'd gladly jump at the invitation.

Danny Kuykendall · Post by **Danny Kuykendall** » 20 Sep 2001 8:49 pm

Lefty, enjoyed your comments. George, agree with you about my overeaction and misjudgment of Bill's comment. We're all human and we all have an ego of some sort, and I displayed a very large one. Sorry again.
I have another comment to make about the "sound" though. I've noticed that in the past 35 years or so the "shiver" of the bar has changed more to a "roll", probably with the advent of pedals to the steel. My father's "shiver" back in the early 60's seemed to barely leave the fret laterally, whereas it seems more and more that the (larger) bar is played with a lot of lateral movement, and therefore moving back and forth across the fret. Does this create any error in staying truly in tune?

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 21 Sep 2001 8:50 pm

Well Danny, all I can tell you, in my 45 years playing the steel, (lap...or better known as the "Hawaiian Guitar"), I have never rolled the bar. I think this "rolling" has all come about in the pedal idiom as they use much larger bars than we 'lap' players use. Hawaiian guitarists call it vibrato and we endeavour to use it with taste...not too wide and not too fast. I feel this is where so much expression comes from in the Hawaiian style of playing.
P.S... If Bill can forgive you, I certainly will without hesitation. Yes, you are correct, I guess we are all human and each of us has a certain amount of ego. Bill's "ego" is almost non-existant as I do hope mine is also.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Sep 2001 2:17 am

The "roll", as I've been told is a more accurate way. By rolling the bar (provided you roll it properly) all strings will get the same amount of pitch change at the same time. Also rolling the bar is supposed to allow more accurate positioning and coming back to the fret.

I started out on a lap steel, many years ago, and then went to lead guitar and bass. In 1969 I went back to Pedal Steel and had to learn hand/bar techniques over. Old time steel was to lift the bar and use the left hand for muting. General Pedal techniques say not to lift the bar (in most cases) and to use the right hand for muting.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 22 Sep 2001 7:29 am

I agree with the muting process. In the early days, I was taught to lift the bar when muting. This always causes a "click" (as the bar leaves the string), and is very annoying. It was also a very difficult habit to get rid of, and I must confess, it is still there at times even though I have made a concentrated effort to do right hand blocking. I still hear many recordings of steel guitarists who lift their bars and frankly, they all sound terrible...."ricky-tick" if you get the picture. re: "Rolling" ... I guess it's a matter of choice. I still prefer a non-roll technic.

Danny Kuykendall · Post by **Danny Kuykendall** » 22 Sep 2001 8:36 pm

George, Jack, Thanks for your responses. I had lessons a few years ago and both teachers taught more of a "roll" technique. I guess what I ended up with is somewhere in the middle; I wanted to keep some of my father's sound, I suppose. I'm sure there's not much of a difference in pitch, one way or the other. Much of sound from the steel comes from this "bar technique" I am surmising, and therefore is involved in the suggestion of "it's in the hands. " Danny

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 23 Sep 2001 7:04 pm

It's in the hands alright but then why don't we all play the cheaper guitars or bother with the pick-ups or amps? It's in the hands but the guitar and amp helps out a bunch for sure not to mention all the different rack systems. The hands are only a part of it. A p/p Emmons sounds good through almost anything.
Mike Sweeney,
I think I seen that old Evans amp downtown a couple of years ago and it had a tag on it that said it was custom made for BE. I heard it had been put out in the trash at BE's house.

Danny Kuykendall · Post by **Danny Kuykendall** » 24 Sep 2001 6:10 pm

Thanks for all the help, guys. Learning a lot about this instrument! Danny