How many players use Jules Ah See C13?

[Mike Neer]

I’m doing a little headcount here. I would really like to help build those numbers up. I think it is one of the most versatile and useful tunings and I have some really cool techniques I’ve developed that I’d like to teach, especially in the chordal department. They are game changers, especially for those interested in Blues and Jazz. For guitarists, there is a great opportunity to comp chords as if you are playing your guitar. Also, you can play pianistically.

In case you’re not sure, Jules Ah See C13 is an 8 string tuning.
E
C
A
G
E
C
Bb
C

[Jim Mckay]

Yep.C13 is my bread and butter tuning. Use to have G on the bottom then changed to the low C.

[Levi Gemmell]

+1. I started out with the Jerry Byrd C6/A7 but settled on the Jules C13 a couple years back.

[Duane Becker]

For Hawaiian steel, I use only the Jules C13 as well as his tuning for the B11. Its the perfect combo for Hawaiian Steel. After wondering for years how in the world Jules played those chords with the bass notes-using those two tunings-especially the C13 I found the answer.

[Jack Hanson]

Is that the one that Gabby used?

[Aaron Clinton]

I had it on a Fender 400 for quite awhile last year. I like to use it when I have to play horn lines. I would gladly put it back on.

[Jim Fogarty]

I had been hooked on High G C6, but I strung up a steel with this Jules C13 and am starting to like and appreciate it.

[Dave Mudgett]

Mike, just since I got that Clinesmith D10 from you, but of course I have a couple of extra notes. I do tend to miss the high G or D on the 8-string, but on the 10-string, I have, lo-hi, C G Bb C E G A C E G/D on the back neck. For blues, I like the high 5th tone because it mimics my favorite slide guitar tunings. But I like the high 2nd for its melodic possibilities, much as I use it for E9 pedal steel. The low power chords on the bottom two strings are good for the guitarist in me. Or I could forego the low G and do both E9 pedal steel-style re-entrant 7 and 2 tones on string 2 and 1, respectively. That would give the pure Jules C13 on the bottom 8. Still working this out.

The other thing with that back neck tuning above is that the standard pedal steel C6 tuning - lo-hi C F A C E G A C E G/D - is a trivial re-tuning of strings 8 and 9 away.

I'm sort of tempted to try these same intervals, but with an E tuning root. A guitarist thing, I guess, not to mention Don Helms on Hank tunes.

[Frank Welsh]

C13th on inside neck and B11th on the outside neck of my D8. Sometimes I go from one neck to the other on a song just to add some different colors.

On a single neck C13th would be my first choice.

[Tom Snook]

What would be the best string guages for me to put C13 on my 8 string?
Mahalo

[Peter Krebs]

Is there a way to apply the ‘best parts’ of this C13 tuning to a six string? And… would a 7-string in C13 (with the Bb in the bass) lose some of the magic? Thanks for any insights. Pete

[Mike Neer]

Many of my discoveries on C13 have been as a result of many years of playing guitar before ever even knowing what a steel guitar is. So I have certain needs that I have to have met in order to feel complete as a player. I am not the type to sit and wait for my part to come up—I like to be active in the music all the time.

So doing things like comping chords in the guitar’s lower range, particularly for swing, blues, R&B and rock and roll, are really important to me. This may not interest all players, but I don’t think I’m alone with this. I like to comp for others, or for my own vocals, or even just play in a pianistic way for solo playing (you don’t want to tick off the bass player). So I dug around and tried a lot of things, even inventing a technique I call string-pushing. The music I am playing today has more in common with stride piano than it does Hawaiian steel to be honest, but maybe that gap will be bridged someday.

As far as string gauges, that really depends on the scale length of your instrument. I use C6 pedal steel string sets on my long scale steels. For shorter scale I would go a little heavier—maybe. I haven’t had a short scale 8 string in many years.

As far as a shortened version of C13, C6 needs to come first, everything else is icing. So the basic C6 or C6/A7 is a prerequisite. For 7 strings, there are other possibilities, but for C13, losing the low C in the JAS C13 would eliminate the type of playing I am alluding to. However, as a consolation, there is a TON of stuff you can do with 7 string with low Bb. For one, it gives another pair of strings that are a 6th apart, for a total of 4 string sets a 6th apart. It is incredible what you can do with that, particularly if you are into blues and jump and even country soul. I spent a year on that alone aspect alone.

I have to add that I grew tired of having two necks and really wanted to be able to play everything on one. I feel like it was the best decision I ever made because I know the neck inside and out now. I am comfortable in a lot of tunings, but not like I am with C13. Another great thing is the simple ability to lower string 7 to A—not necessarily for minor chords, either. Those I can play with C13 using technique. But I can play cool rhythm patterns that are tough with C13.

[Nic Neufeld]

Is there a way to apply the ‘best parts’ of this C13 tuning to a six string? And… would a 7-string in C13 (with the Bb in the bass) lose some of the magic? Thanks for any insights. Pete

Since I approach the steel in a more "play Hawaiian music, predominantly in Hawaii Calls style" kind of way, compared to Mike, who is using Jules tuning to explore his own, wild and interesting stuff (hat is off!) I can at least say from a Hawaiian music perspective, sure you can use C13 on a six string. Just flat the low C and remember it is down there, don't go for a big sweet 6th chord strum and hit the b7 accidentally! Alan Akaka charts a lot of tunes in this tuning, since so many students are on 6 string. There are some disadvantages...you can do some cool slants on the low strings when you have the C in there too (5-6-7 string straight bar on a fret to get a nice sweet dominant7 chord, then do a forward 2 fret slant in place to resolve to the one...5th string up one fret, 6th in place, 7th down one fret).

My second favorite would be the 7 string version like you mention. Only magic it loses is the low bass which can sound really nice on a Barney Isaacs or Jules style intro. I have a .070 on my low C (long scale Clinesmith) and I love it, deep and full. I've done some gigs solo (more just ambience) and I like the fullness it gives me without a bass player. You can overuse it of course, its just a nice little extra. Ideally with an amp with some bass response!

In answer to the overall question yep I'm another primary C13 player. B11 I like to play in as well, but not as fluent in it. I can play songs in B11, eg. things I've worked out and learned, I can more just -play- if that makes sense in C13.

[Dave Mudgett]

... So doing things like comping chords in the guitar’s lower range, particularly for swing, blues, R&B and rock and roll, are really important to me. This may not interest all players, but I don’t think I’m alone with this. ...

You're not alone. 55+ years of playing guitar, there are situations where I want to be able to properly comp without making excuses due to the limitations of the tuning's low end. With 8 strings, I have generally made the compromise to get more on the low end and forego the highest notes.

I'm trying to put together a project that mixes swing, blues, jump blues, R&B, and country, the latter especially focusing on Texas-style shuffles. The guy that I played with for 12 years in blues and bluegrass bands will be playing guitar, and he can cover a lot of ground. But I want to be able to support him without the bottom dropping out while he is taking breaks or backing off while singing. So the low-string comping is essential. And I really don't want to have to switch to guitar. That would be the easy way for me, but I don't think I'll be satisfied with losing the steel. The steel and fiddle will be what makes this band unique, around here anyway. Maybe not in Texas, ha!

[Jim Fogarty]

What would be the best string guages for me to put C13 on my 8 string?
Mahalo

These are perfect:

https://www.steelguitarshopper.com/JP-7680/

[Jim Newberry]

As another Alan Akaka student and Jules fanboy, I use this C13 primarily.

[David Matzenik]

I don't play JAS C13th, but if someone, not naming names, were to offer an instruction book, I'd buy it.

[Joe Cook]

I use C13 tuning with low G on 8 string. I need to try Jules tuning, though. I like Jerry Byrds C6/A7 for six strings as well. These two tunings seem so natural for me I just concentrate on them now along with the lovely B11 on my D8. I will definitely try the low C.

[Andy Volk]

I most often gravitate to my 6-string guitars but when I play 8-string C6th/C13th variations I use ....

C Bb C E G A C E

F A C E G A C E

G Bb C E G A C E

[Zoots Houston]

I typically play E9 pedal steel, but my lap steel has been tuned very similarly to JAS for over a year now. I use an F instead of a low C. I like all the 6-string C6 literature being available for the top six strings and using the bottom two strings for expanded chord vocabulary. That low C does seem tempting though

[David M Brown]

Although I spend a lot of time on A6 and other tunings,
I've been using both regular 6 string C6 and the Jules Ah See 8 string tuning...and really liking the sounds.

Thanks for all the tips.

[Jim Kaznosky]

C6 player dabbling in C6/A7. I plan to go full on Jules once my 8-string arrives. If your selling, I'm buying especially with comping. This is my bread and butter on guitar 90% of the time and I'd love to get good enough at it where I can bring a few instruments to a gig.

[Peter Schilske]

Mike Neer:I’m doing a little headcount here. I would really like to help build those numbers up. I think it is one of the most versatile and useful tunings and I have some really cool techniques I’ve developed that I’d like to teach, especially in the chordal department. They are game changers, especially for those interested in Blues and Jazz. For guitarists, there is a great opportunity to comp chords as if you are playing your guitar. Also, you can play pianistically.

Thanks Mike. I tried this tuning today. Just what I am interested in. Great inspiration. I used a wound 62 on the low end C, but it is a little bit sloopy...

[Ethan Shaw]

I use that tuning a decent amount. I love that low C! Another famous recording it was used on was Hillbillies From Outerspace, played by Jimmie Vaughan. He told me he learned it from Jerry Byrd.

[Joe Cook]

Thanks for that info, Ethan. I always liked that tune on Family Style.