need,pedal slack,at the top.

Raymond White · Post by **Raymond White** » 4 Dec 2024 11:12 am

what i need, is some slack, on top of my pedals ,they are way to sensitive,at the top,it is a gfi ultras d 10 .the slightest touch on the pedals it will start to change the tuning,amy help on this will be greatly appreciated,thanks ray white Byron Ga,31008,478 663 9085...

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 4 Dec 2024 1:30 pm

Hi, Ray. On many all-pull guitars like the GFI, the feather-light pedal action is just part of the deal.

You can move the pullrods further away from the crosshaft to make the pedal action shorter and stiffer. But even if you re-rod the pedal action to be as stiff as possible, the pedals are sitting at neutral where even the slightest touch will start changing the pitch. I've owned all-pull guitars by Fessenden, Carter, Marlen... same thing on all of them. I think those of us in this situation have to learn to just keep hovering over the pedals until it's time to really use them.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 4 Dec 2024 1:37 pm

I was just discussing this with another steeler a few days ago. I like a fair amount of slack on my A and B pedals. Assuming you are playing a fairly standard build all-pull: increase the pedal travel, and then back off the nylon tuning nuts to get the pedals back in tune.

For me it's not an issue of how light or stiff the pedal action is, I just want to be able to have my foot brush the pedal without engaging the change.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 4 Dec 2024 1:38 pm

Dan, what kind of all-pull guitar are you referencing? What you've described would lower the pedals, but I'm not seeing how it changes sensitivity.

A push-pull is obviously a completely different animal and you can rest your foot. But on an all-pull, no matter where you set the travel and tuning nut, at neutral, gravity should pull the pedal down and remove all the slack out of the pull train -- leaving the pedal sitting right at the point of engagement. The only thing affecting sensitivity to a light brushing would be the overall stiffness of the pull. And I've never seen a pull stiff enough to keep the pitch from changing with a light touch. Maybe I've only played super-light touch guitars?

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 4 Dec 2024 1:59 pm

Not sure why it would lower the pedals. My Sho buds have springs to pull the bellcranks back when at rest, hence the perceptible slack. My Excel does not have such springs, but the slack in the pull train still seems to prevent unwanted activation of the pedals.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 4 Dec 2024 2:03 pm

Sho-Bud has springs. Check.

On the Excel, does the pedal move a bit down, as in actual slack, before there's any pitch change? Or is it just good about not being touchy?

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 4 Dec 2024 2:19 pm

The latter. I would actually consider adding springs to the Excel, but it plays so nicely that I don't dare mess with it anymore than I already have.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 4 Dec 2024 2:21 pm

Cool. Looks like I need to get an Excel. Or figure out the secret sauce as to why it's not so touchy to a light brushing... I've never run across that before on a modern all-pull.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 4 Dec 2024 5:17 pm

I know the feeling.
I migrated from a MSA Classic S10 (With wrap and hook, Cross shaft springs), Which gives you a 1/4" to 3/8" pedal movement before the pull actually begins.

In Dec. 2017, I Up graded, To GFI ULTRA S12 (No return springs). Touch pedal change starts.

Now a Mullen's PRP S12 is joining the herd, (With pedal/cross shaft return springs). After holidays I need to clean & polish it up, Change some pedals and knee levers to match Jeff Newman's S12 Uni. setup. Before it becomes part of the herd.
I had thought about putting return springs on my GFI.
Now I need to figure out & install some type of return springs on my GFI's. Or it will be train wrecks looking for places to happen.

MSA Classic steels have a wrap around the cross shaft, 1 end hooks on the pedal rod lever, The other end has a sled runner on the other end that contacts the body of the guitar.

Sho-Bud guitars have a simple stretch coil pedal/cross shaft spring, To anchor screw on the Front Apron.

Mullen has a simple stretch coil pedal/cross shaft return springs anchored to screw, On underside of the cabinet top.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 5 Dec 2024 3:42 am

As has been pretty thoroughly covered, it's all about pedal/cross shaft return springs. You can have an inch of slack in the pull train but when you turn the guitar upright, gravity will pull the pedal down to the point of engagement.

Making the pulls stiffer so that they are not quite as sensitive to idle foot pressure -- this will affect the length of the pedal throws and it will affect the relationships between the pedals (the heights of A and B, for instance, at start and at finish.) It's one of those things where you start messing and before you know it, a small change has turned into a huge fine-tuning job.

This is the Sho-Bud return spring. Williams has a different approach, as do some of the other guitars mentioned. I have no experience with GFI so I won't make suggestions as to how to go about adding springs.