Does Country Music need the Steel Guitar ,or does the Steel

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 13 Dec 2000 3:21 am

After listening for about three weeks too all the newer versions of Country music It's not hard to notice gone are the great intros and turn arounds.Now substituted is token fills and little presence during the song..

How long before these are totally substituted with guitar fills? Thanks to the past efforts of the greats of the past, the Steel Guitar industry continues to produce talent and the emerging and growth of many Steel shows continues their popularity and personal sales..But who needs who the most? Easy answer I hope...

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CJC

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 13 Dec 2000 9:08 am

Who CARES?????

gone are the great intros and turn arounds

Gone from WHAT????? My old Ray Price records still spin on my turntable, I don't know about yours.

A symphony orchestra still plays Beethoven symphonies, even though they are 'gone' from the popular music of our time. A good honkey tonk band will keep the great tunes alive for future generations.

I say live and let live. I've never liked what comes out of Nashville for more than a year or so at a time. Trends come and go and I don't personally care for the overproduced sound that always seems to alternate with the more 'traditional'. But that's not to say that there aren't good tunes being produced, both in Nashville, and within the alternative country scene (e.g., Dale Watson, Derailers, etc.).

We sometimes act like slaves to Nashville. The producers and labels are only trying to market what sells to most people. Face it, folks, WE AIN'T MOST PEOPLE.

My opinion.

LTB

Tommy Minniear · Post by **Tommy Minniear** » 13 Dec 2000 10:00 am

I've always felt, I think like most folks, that they walk hand in hand. I feel this is extremely important for maintainng a true country music sound. I don't feel that the steel guitar is totaly dependant upon country music. Look at the venue one must attend to see Buddy Emmons play live now days. Though it seems a little mellow by todays standards, The Everlys are a rock-n-roll act. From all reports by fellow Forumites who have attended these shows, the steel guitar fits perfectly. Of course, we as steel guitarist, have always known it would. If you were at the ISGC this past year and listened to any number of the players, Joe Wright and Paul Fraklin to name two, it is pretty obvious that a steel guitar is capable of surviving in any musical enviorment. It is the players that have the bulk of the limitations. Go back and listen to the non-country tracks(the ones most of us skipped over or fast forwarded past, because it was too far over our head) on most of the steel guitar albums, cassettes, and CD's released. For years the leading steel guitarist have been showing us that there are "No Limits" to what a steel guitar is capable of. I truly love steel guitar in the country music setting, but I don't kid myself into believing that is the only musical setting it is appropiate to be played in. The steel guitar will survive Nashville's lack of use as it has repeatedly done time and time again. And although a lot of us may never have the ability or opportunity to play outside the realm of country music; I for one, am thankful that players like Buddy Emmons, Julian Tharpe, Maurice Anderson, Doug Jernigan, Paul Franklin, Rusty Young, Buddy Cage, Joe Goldmark, and Joe Wright continue to show us the way.

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Tommy Minniear

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 13 Dec 2000 10:42 am

In answer to the question, NO, steel guitar does not need country music. Steel guitar was and is, can and will be used in all genre's of music. As a matter of fact, as we all know, country music (or Hill-Billy as it was known as way back when) adopted the fluid and haunting sounds of steel guitars from the Hawaiians. But country, until recently, has always embraced and enhanced the sounds of steel and the presece of steel guitars in country music has sold a lot of records because of the wide audience that country music has, country music was its primary home since the late 20s and early 30s when Jimmy Rodgers first used it on his recordings. So, let me repeat the answer, NO NO NO, Country Music needs steel guitar so that even though they may not play countr music, they can be classified as "country."

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Dec 2000 4:04 pm

In a word..."No" to each question. Some very good Country Music has been done without a steel, and a lot of steel is anything but Country.

In fact, a lot of today's "Country Music" is anything but Country!

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 14 Dec 2000 4:17 am

Ok! The Steel Guitar can survive without Country Music...And Country Music can survive without the Steel Guitar..Can we all survive without Country Music?

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CJC

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 14 Dec 2000 7:53 am

Larry Bell, i'd like to address an interesting point that you made me think about.

A symphony orchestra still plays Beethoven symphonies, even though they are 'gone' from the popular music of our time. A good honkey tonk band will keep the great tunes alive for future generations

The thing is, that no modern orchestral works get much supposrt or recognition, new composers are in general lucky to have a composition played more than the time it has it's debut performance.
It's okay for symphonies all over the world to play pieces by long, long dead composers, it's called classical music by nost people and that's pretty much what it's about.
Play the stuff people know, stuff the orchestra members were trained with, and best of all you don't have to pay a guy who has been in the ground for 400 years.

This is totally legit, despite the fact that is no different to a bar band playing 'Louie Louie' ....can anyone explain this to me?
(thanks to Frank Zappa for awakening me to this 'classic' con job)

Joe, how long do you think there'll be country music?, as I always say.. what they call R&B, sounds pretty pop to me.

We got to look back, before we can truly go forward.
[This message was edited by Jason Odd on 14 December 2000 at 07:57 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 14 Dec 2000 3:27 pm

it's called classical music by nost people

Yes, very much like Ray Price repertoire is considered 'classic country'. Country music hasn't been around for 300 or more years either. Just wait.

LTB

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Dec 2000 4:28 pm

Yes, but not necessarily so. Now, let me say this about that. If one or the other didn't exist, then we wouldn't have to ask the question because the answer would be no. In another dimension it could be asked that if there were no steel guitars, would there be steel guitar players? So, my answer would be NO, but in other situations MAYBE or even YES.

Boy I'll be glad when I pick up my prescriptions.

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Carter D10 8p/10k
Richard Sinkler BS, www.sinkler.com

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 14 Dec 2000 4:34 pm

Richard, how is it that your post stuck to the point better than mine?
That's a bit scary... I'm going to have to find some anti-ramble medicine.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 15 Dec 2000 3:41 am

I was on a whole bunch of S**T when I wrote the post.

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CJC

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 13 Jan 2001 3:53 am

Burrrp

Larry it's great to spin the old records but wouldn't it be nice to hear as much steel in the newer songs (of course if they fit the song)I too live on my vast collection of the past...But I keep my ears open however all I hear is fills...And with that amount of work,they only need one or two players to work in Nashburg..JMHO

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 13 January 2001 at 04:00 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 13 Jan 2001 6:40 am

Nashville is dead and always has been! The best country music I've ever heard has always came from the WEST COAST!!!!!! Buck, Merle, Wynne, and later the Desert Rose Band. Who kept it alive when Chet killed it with the Nashville Sound? Today though it seems like the best stuff is coming out of Texas. It's true what the TV ad says "Texas, it's like a whole other country". They've got artists down there who make good music, money, and never have to leave the state.
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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 13 January 2001 at 06:44 AM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 14 Jan 2001 7:29 am

Well, I hate to quote Jim Morrison but..

The West Is The Best

Texas is pretty much where it's at now, California has still got some great things happening too, but it's indie all the way for now.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 14 Jan 2001 11:45 am

Country music and the steel will always be associated together, but I say the steel is NOT just a country instrument. It is a MUSICAL instrument, capable of doing much more. Look at the jazz stylings of Maurice Anderson, Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, Doug Fernigan, Hal Rugg, Hal Merrill, and our fellow forumites Bob Taillifer and Jim Cohen.

Besides these great players we have Joe Goldmark playing rock and roll, Chas Smith and Susan Alcorn's experimental music, B.J. Cole's techno music, Juju music from Nigeria, Ned Self and Robert Powell's original compositions, Sasha Matson'c concerto for pedal steel guitar and string orchestra (the CD of which features our fellow forumite Doug Livingston, who also plays in a jazz band,) Dan Tyack blues work on his Blackened Toast CD, Bobby Black's great Honkey Cat LP of pop tunes and my transcriptions of classical works.

Aside from those I mentioned, I'm sure I left out several others who are also playing new and different kinds of things.

The steel guitar has unlimited potential. The only limitations are in the minds of the players. Personally I feel it's too wonderful an instrument to be confined to just one kind of music, and I am dedicated to taking it into new musical areas and exposing it to new audiences.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 14 Jan 2001 5:16 pm

Gary Brandin is sensational with the Blue Hawaiians, reviving the surf music with steel guitar thang, which has been sadly absent from the world of music for far too long.
Although don't let me generalise the Blue Hawaiians sound, they have a wonderful textural sound that recalls some dark Latin/Hawaiian combo in a seedy lounge-arama cocktail of voodoo seduction music.

Music to play while seducing Betty Page....
Yowza!

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 14 Jan 2001 5:34 pm

Mike, I have always been in agreement that the instrument should be used in more than just Country..And I commend you for your West Side project you let me listened to in St. Louis. Now if only other music producers would see and think like that there would be no boundries..However I still love to hear the Steel presence in Country Music and it's being limited...

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CJC

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 17 Jan 2001 2:49 pm

Stflnatic: Lets be honest,You say Quote:"the steel doesn't need country music and country isn't country without a steel"...Isn't that the same as saying country needs a Steel Guitar..Heck we all can agree the steel is a versitle instrument.But????How many other varieties of music are using a steel guitar with regularity? Or will in the future...Prove me wrong I won't mind...

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CJC

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Jan 2001 3:04 pm

I auditioned with an all-original folk-rock band recently, and the conga player/percussionist complained that I made the band sound too country. The bandleader fired him and hired me. His logic was that even if it does sound more country with a steel, there's nothing wrong with that!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 18 Jan 2001 4:03 am

How many other varieties of music are using a steel guitar with regularity?

Juju.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 18 Jan 2001 4:49 am

Maybe I should have asked "does Nashville need the Steel Guitar or does the Steel need Nashville?...Irregardless of all, I needed the Steel Guitar sound in my music..

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CJC

Neil · Post by **Neil** » 22 Jan 2001 5:20 pm

I think the steel guitar is a beautiful instrument that has been exploited by "new country music" who use it to disquise their inocuous pop music. This may be controversial but...I think rock has actually done a lot for the pedal steel recently. I have been hearing a lot of great players playing on "rock albums" which I think affords them the opportunity to play on songs with some lyrical substance (unlike the "boot scoot boggie" by brooks and dunn)they get to introduce the instrument to a younger crowd (Lloyd Maines playing with Wilco) and get to inovate the playing of the instrument and the possibilities(B.J. Cole recording with Club D.J.'s) I hope I don't tick anyone off. I think its a good thing. We don't want it to die when we do or rust from stagnation.