Minors

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 31 Jul 2001 10:44 am

I'm not sure this is the right place for this but if not, b0b will correct me...

I seem to have trouble with recognizing minors in some of todays songs. I come from the old school (right Chuck?) when minors SEEMED to be easier to recognize.

Is there any rythum/tab products that any of you know of that specializes in exercising the minor, especially in todays "country" music?

Todd Pertll · Post by **Todd Pertll** » 31 Jul 2001 10:53 am

When I was in school I had to take 4 semesters of Aural Skills. We had computer programs to help us. But, what I found most helpful was sitting down at a piano, playing the chords, and singing the tones. Just arpeggiate the chord and sing the tones. Then, just play a root note and try to sing the flat third and fifth, using the piano to check your intonation. Doing this for 1/2 hour a day helped me alot. For more exercises I would suggest buying a textbook on ear training. You should be able to find a used one at your local bookstore. I hope this helps.

Todd

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 31 Jul 2001 10:59 am

These days, it really IS harder to recognize minors. When I'm not absolutely sure, I always ask for some ID.[I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. What Todd said is good advice....]</FONT[This message was edited by P Gleespen on 31 July 2001 at 12:01 PM.]

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 31 Jul 2001 1:27 pm

Any key will have 6 chords that will cover most all songs,and they are directly related to the major scale that the key is named for.
Example: key C = c-d-e-f-g-a-b-c
1/4/5 = major
2/3/6 = minor
or major-minor-minor-major-major-minor
1 = C major
2 = D minor
3 = E minor
4 = F major
5 = G major
6 = A minor
Beside the 1/4/5 chords that are almost always used, next in line would be the 6 (aka relative minor)in this case Am, then the 2/Dm then the 3/Em.
This will help to narrow down the choices to try and should help you figure out the correct minor chord. It's not 100%, but it helps alot.
JE:-)>

Drew Grice · Post by **Drew Grice** » 31 Jul 2001 1:45 pm

The minors are also called "relative minors." They are related 2 notes back of one of the majors. ie. 1(8) major--6 minor, 4 major--2 minor, 5 major--3 minor.
They can also be found at the position of the relative 7th chord by omitting the 7th note.

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 31 Jul 2001 1:50 pm

Thanks all,

I have been playing with a Denver-area singer and several times lately, I've grabbed the wrong handfull of strings for the minor he was in. MAN I hate to do that!!

Thanks for the feedback.

Leroy

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 Jul 2001 2:13 pm

Older style country music (and other forms as well -- roots rock included) tends to include primarily triad based chord structure. When you hear a major chord, someone is playing the tonic, the third and the fifth. The same is true for a minor except that the third is flatted 1/2 step. Even one more note, like a Ma7, Dom7, or mi7, is considered by many to be an 'off chord'.

Popular musicians (Stevie Wonder and Bruce Hornsby come to mind) often use polychords and highly altered or substituted chords that aren't nearly as easy to identify. I believe this may be the dilemma that Leroy's talking about. A lot of add 9 and suspensions are often used -- not necessarily 'jazz chords', but certainly NOT pure major or minor chords either. Some chords DON'T HAVE A THIRD. It's hard to classify as major or minor without one. Some chords are so highly altered or embellished that the root is not obvious, much less the third.

'Modern country' tunes share some of those stylistic elements and voicings. I sincerely believe that's one of the main reasons why some of us crusty old f*rts have a hard time coming to grips with the newer styles.

I don't have a silver bullet here, but one solution is the same as the one we used when we first learned 'A Way to Survive'. Listen to the songs and isolate what the steel player is playing. Exposure to a bunch of different tunes and progressions will enable you to HEAR those chords and changes. Don't expect all the old standard licks to fit -- learn some new ideas that can be used with this 'Brave New World' of 'country'

music.

. . . or else just go off to the VFW or Moose Lodge and play the old songs for the other old f*rts.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 31 Jul 2001 2:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I have been playing with a Denver-area singer and several times lately, I've grabbed the wrong handfull of strings for
the minor he was in. MAN I hate to do that!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Keeps them on their toes and it gives them an opportunity to showcase how well they can adjust to the unexpected.

Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 2 Aug 2001 3:40 am

Leroy,
minors can be ticklish, especially when it comes to minor KEYS, not just CHORDS. Any given minor key has three different variants:

A minor natural: Am - Bdim ("G7 no root" for Carl Dixon

) - C - Dm - Em - F - G
A minor harmonic: Am - Bdim - C(aug) - Dm - E - F - G#dim (E7 no root)
A minor melodic: Am - B - C(aug) - D - E - F#dim (D7 no root)

Then there are, as has been stated before, quite a few rock/R&B/blues tunes that use major chords where one would expect minors - the intro to "Proud Mary", "Smoke On The Water" or "Sittin´On The Dock Of The Bay" - while the melodies use a minor blues scale.

But even classic country songs sometimes hold surprises. The middle part of "Rose Garden" (in the key of A) "... so smile for a while ..." goes: Bm - E - Em - F#7 - Bm - Dm - E. There are "passing modulations" into other keys in that progression that you just can´t anticipate if you just follow along by ear.

Take a look at the chord progession of "Girl From Ipanema" here on the forum. For me, at least, there would be NO WAY to anticipate those chord changes. I have to KNOW them, before I try to mess around with them.

The concept of "Just tell me the key, and I´ll manage" doesn´t always work out.
My humble advice would be: Make sure you know the chord progression of the songs beforehand. Contrary to popular belief, there ARE country songs that use more than three chords.

So buy the guitarist a drink - he might just tell you the chords. Buy him a bottle of Jack Daniel´s - and he might even jot them down on a paper napkin.

And if he empties that bottle before you´re on stage you can always point accusingly at HIM every time YOU grab the wrong bunch of strings. - That´s what I do ...

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Remington D 10 8/8, Session 400 LTD