What Do You Think About This?

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 10 Jan 2003 8:54 am

Last night, I bought a CD -- it was "16 Biggest Hits - Merle Haggard." It had the 16 songs listed on the back -- mostly early stuff like "The Bottle Let Me Down" and Workin' Man's Blues" and "Walkin' on the Fightin' Side of Me" and "Mama Tried" and "Okie from Musomthinerother" etc. etc. I rushed home, and with my mouth watering, I put the CD into my player. Immediately, I was shocked and appalled to hear, not the original recordings, but what sounded like an older, gentler Hag singing all of the songs. With the shock of disbelieve still clouding my vision and with my mouth hanging open I looked at the CD case -- no mention of the songs being re-recorded versions. I then looked inside the case at the insert. There in the corner was a little blurb that said "All songs recorded in 1994 . . ." Well, what do you know? Thanks a lot Sony and Merle!! If you're going to sell me re-recorded songs at least let me know what I'm buying before it's too late to return it! It just so happens that the store I bought it from has a firm no return policy.

I'm not saying this CD is not good -- what I'm saying is that I bought the CD because I wanted the original recordings and I'd just as soon have a CD of Englebert Humperdink than re-recorded Hag classics. If a CD says "Merle Haggard's 16 Biggest Hits" and if there is no mention on the outside of the package that the songs are re-recorded versions, then it's a big R-I-P-O-F-F!!

Bryan Knox · Post by **Bryan Knox** » 10 Jan 2003 9:11 am

Tom,
Same story here. Same CD, same shock. Now I am VERY cautious about any new "classic" or "Greatest Hits" CD's I purchase for this very reason. If it doesn't advertise "original recordings" on the cover, there's a good chance it will be the same kinda stuff you described.

I love the Hag too, but I prefer the original recordings.

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Help prevent juvenile delinquency...teach children to STEEL

[This message was edited by Bryan Knox on 10 January 2003 at 09:12 AM.]

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 10 Jan 2003 10:03 am

Hey Tom,
The same thing happened to me on a CD of Ray Price hits. The dang think had a lot of strings and little if any steel. I think I threw it out or something.....JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 10 Jan 2003 10:18 am

I feel for ya. I avoid the collection CD's. I too want the originals, or to at least know they're different.

BTW: That's a lousy return policy. They should at least offer a store credit. I returned the "Song Writers' Tribute to Merle Haggard" after listening to the singing; no questions asked.

I've recently begun seeing the original live album of Okie From Muskogee. There had been a "collection" mascarading under that title.

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HagFan

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Jan 2003 10:31 am

Yes it's true..You can buy a Refridgerator or a Washer..you can buy enough building materials to build a House..and return it all...for poor quality...You can even spend $100 on Prime Filet's, and if they don't taste good...Yes..A refund !

But try to return a $15 CD for poor music ...it makes no sense...

Napster and Kazaa have emerged...and they wonder why...

A few years back my 14 year old daughter bought a Mariya Carey CD, her own $16...
It had one quality studio song and the rest were out-takes that seemed to have maybe been done in a car while driving or maybe at home on the toilet...very poor recording and quality. The CD packaging claimed all new songs by the singer..My daughter has not bought another CD since.

tp

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 Jan 2003 10:43 am

Ditto[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 10 January 2003 at 02:28 PM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 10 Jan 2003 11:43 am

The same thing happened to me...with a Warner Mack"Greatest Hits"collection.Luckily,I talked the store into a refund.I can understand why stores don't want to give refunds-for all they know ten copies could have been burned from the original...when you buy a collection like this,make sure it's released on the same label as the original(Merle=Capitol,Price=Columbia or Sony,etc.)It won't always be that simple,but most of the time the original label will just repackage the original masters...it is cheaper for them...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Jan 2003 2:16 pm

Yep! Same thing happened to me. I bought a compilation of Merle's hits..."Merle Haggard - 20 Hits" on the Curb label. Onlt to play it...and be very disappointed. Sure enough, if you read the liner notes (inside), it says..."This collection features recent recordings of his best-loved hits of the '60s and '70s." Though they're done well, they pale in comparison to the originals...the whole mood and sound are changed.

Now, had I known that, I'd have never bought it. All this crap about stars "re-doing" or "updating" their material to make it sound better is bull. Today's best "Remastered" CD's just sound "flat and lifeless" compared to the original 45's on a Seeburg Jukebox. (Yeah...digital stuff never impressed me...neither did "Stereo"...2 channel or 8 channel.)

I suspect the reason they probably do it is so the new label doesn't have to pay the old label for the rights to use the old cuts.

The original recording was the hit...and that's the one 99% of the public wants.

Thank you...rant complete.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 10 January 2003 at 02:18 PM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 10 Jan 2003 2:57 pm

It's interesting - the Everly Brothers re-recorded all their big 'Cadence' hits when they moved to Warner Brothers in 1960. It appeared as 'Golden Hits' or something like that.

Bear in mind that this happened only a matter of months after the first versions were recorded, and the results are almost identical (the same musicians were used, I believe, and Chet matched his parts to perfection). After that, there was more chance of hearing the 'new' cuts on the radio, and it's probable that they're the tracks that we now accept as the 'real thing'!

It's not quite the same as the 'Merle issue', as the new Don and Phil tracks were wonderful, but I thought it worth a mention....

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Roger Rettig

PS: This is my 500th post on the Forum

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 10 January 2003 at 03:00 PM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 10 Jan 2003 3:09 pm

OK - here's #501....

I quite agree, Donny! I've never heard music sound better than old 'mono' on a good juke-box!

A friend of mine has one in his living room (back home in England). Some years ago, I bought a set of Elvis re-issue extended-play records, and took them over to his place to listen. They'd done away with that dreadful 'simulated stereo' and pressed them in Mono - I'd forgotten how exciting 'Treat Me Nice' sounded when I first heard it!

There's no 'bottom-end' on anything nowadays...(or have I gone deaf?)

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Roger Rettig

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 10 Jan 2003 3:18 pm

Same deal 'cept I only got 10 Hag hits. I don't know if I read this somewhere or if I'm just making it up but with Hag's money troubles, is there a possibility that he actually re-recorded this stuff because he had lost all royalty rights to the originals and was trying to cash in with the new recordings? I'm clueless about this kind of stuff so maybe what I said makes no sense. And I agree--the new stuff doesn't suck by any means but it pales next to the originals.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 11 Jan 2003 8:13 pm

I bought a Johnny Paycheck CD once, with all his hits, it sounded like he did in his living room with a Casio keyboard for the drums. It was awful.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 12 Jan 2003 1:36 am

I have only one Merle Haggard album. It's called 'Songs I'll Always Sing'. It's a two record set released under the Capitol label. Most of the early hits are there, save a couple live cuts. 'Okie' was one of them. Fortunately I have a 45 of the original 'Okie' to compare with the live version.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 12 Jan 2003 5:20 am

I don't care what the store's "policy" is. MY policy is that I don't let somebody snooker me with FALSE ADVERTISING. The key information was hidden INSIDE the package and was not accessible before purchase. That is false advertising and takes higher precedence over their return policy. (Would they refuse to take back a clothes dryer they'd delivered that had actually said "washer" on the outside?? I think not! And they can't say "Sorry, it's our "policy". "Policy" is not the LAW. Truth in Advertising IS the law. Which one is the higher value? Duh! I would explain this to the manager in no uncertain terms and DEMAND a refund, or at the very minimum an exchange for a "real" CD and INSIST on it. If they still refuse, I would tell him/her that you'll never shop there again and they'll lose hundreds (thousands?) of dollars of future income from you and ask them again whether their stinkin' "policy" is still more important than their business sense and doing the right thing. If they do, I'd pick up my cellphone, right in front of the manager, and call the police and charge them with false advertising. Try it! I'll bet you'll never get to the cellphone part.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 12 Jan 2003 5:21 am

At least you guys got the right singer. I bought a Ray Price cassette a few years ago at one of those indoor flea markets. I took it out to the car an popped it into the player. It wasn't even him singing. I took it back to the dealer and he said "let me listen" and then said, yep that's Ray Price alright! Ray is my all time favorite singer and I certainly know his singing well. Unless this was a recording he made when he was young and before he developed his signature voice, then it was a ripoff. The songs were all his hits, so that does not seem like a possibility. In retrospect, I should have mailed it to Ray and let his lawyer's deal with it.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 12 Jan 2003 12:20 pm

Jim -- I agree with you 100%. This kind of thing is false advertising. The CD should plainly indicate that the songs are re-recorded versions, especially since it says, in huge letters, "16 Biggest Hits." Anyone would naturally assume that these were the originals.

I went back to the store (Hastings) where I bought the CD right away -- I was back there probably within 15 minutes of purchasing the CD. I talked with the sales clerk and the manager and explained the situation very clearly -- it wasn't that I bought the wrong CD or that I decided that I didn't like it after listening to it -- I explained that, instead, it is a case of buying something that clearly appeared to be something different than it actually was.

However, it was as if I was speaking Greek to them. They simply listened to what I had to say, then responded, "sorry, we can't change our policy." I tried explaining it again -- they said the same thing. They even went so far as to suggest that I take the matter up with the record company since they couldn't help me.

I felt myself becoming so angry that I felt like flinging the darned CD into the back of the store like a frisbee. But, instead, I told them I wanted to cancel my rental account and that I wouldn't be back. The manager simply said, "OK" and called some other guy over to close my account.

GOOD NEWS -- I finally thought to call the toll-free number on my sales receipt and I talked with someone in customer service. Luckily, this person at least seemed somewhat reasonable. I explained the situation again. It appeared at first that I was going to get the same response as I got at the stor. Then the representative put me on hold and went and did some checking on something (I don't know what). She came back to the phone, asked for my phone number and said she'd call me back. A few minutes later, she called me back and said I could take it back to the store for an exchange or in-store credit. She also said that in the future I should attempt to listen to sound bytes from a CD on their website before I buy one.

I went back to the store and happened to talk to the same manager. She gave me a credit, but she still didn't seem to grasp the reason why this should have been an exception to their policy. I guess she'll make a good manager for them. [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 12 January 2003 at 02:09 PM.]

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 12 Jan 2003 6:11 pm

All of us being musicians, we might be the only ones who would notice the difference, or at least care about it.

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 13 Jan 2003 7:09 am

I have 2 LPs of Eddy Arnold and his songs from the 40's & 50's..not a sign of Little Roy on either one! They were discount bin bargains at about $2, so it wasn't worth my time to return them, but you can imagine my disappointment when I put them in the turntable....and this was over 10 years ago, so the practise is not new.

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 14 Jan 2003 5:18 am

It would appear then that you are not a Merle Haggard fan; you are a Merle Haggard music fan...

Merle is Merle period. If you were buying his album then it appears as if you were only buying it for the music, in this case the original music.

If you think about it, it disrespects Mele Haggard and the SONGS he performs if you only like the original stuff.

I just don't understand, it was only 15.00 for recordings that depict Merle Haggard as he sounds today not when he was 20. How do you think HE feels about it?

Not saying you are wrong for wanting what you wanted, but it does appears somewhat rude to Merle that you would only buy old stuff and return for refund the new..

Whatever...

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Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8 & 9 - Troy Cook & the Long Haul Band

[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 14 January 2003 at 08:26 AM.]

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 14 Jan 2003 10:24 am

A lot of artists whose best income earning capability is probably behind them often do this.Merle's and lots of others' heyday took place in a time when record companies took all the money and through creative bookkeeping kept even the downstream earnings and often the publishing and songwriting royalties as well.In those cases,all the artist earned was what he made on live gigs based on the fact that he had a record on the radio at the time.When there's no more mainstream hits,he loses his record deal and the gig money goes WAY down.When an artist re-records past hits,at least he owns the copyright on the new "sound recording" as it's called and even if he still has to pay some money to the original record company or publishers and just sell the new record off the stage or at truckstops and K-Marts,he still makes more than he ever did the first time around - and good for him.A fair portion of any up-and-coming or over-the-hill act's touring income is generated by sales of homebrew CDs and other swag to their still existant fan base.Whether or not he or his producer sees fit to put steel on a re-recording or not is a seperate issue. I can tell that a lot of you guys never had a record deal. -MJ-[This message was edited by Michael Johnstone on 14 January 2003 at 10:25 AM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 14 Jan 2003 12:08 pm

Tim and Michael -- I mean no disrespect to Mr. Haggard at all. As I've said above, I didn't think the CD was bad. The issue is that I wanted the original recordings and the CD had all appearances of containing the original recordings.

I don't see how the fact that a consumer happens to prefer the original versions of recordings would be disrespectful to any artist.

Again, I'm not bashing the fact that he re-recorded the songs. What I'm bashing is the fact that the CD gave no indication of the fact that the songs were re-recorded versions.

I'm sorry if Mr. Haggard has had financial woes. I don't want to sound callous, but that's not my problem. If he wants to re-record every song he ever did, then more power to him and I hope he sells a boat load of them.

But, I think it's wrong to try to sell something that appears to be something it's not. I don't know if Mr. Haggard had anything to do with it, or whether it was strictly the record company who was responsible.

I think Mr. Haggard is a great artist and I have respect for him in that regard. But I don't owe him a darned thing, and I don't have to be happy with his re-recorded CD.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 14 Jan 2003 2:30 pm

Tim, I respectfully disagree. Merle should be flattered to know that some fans are enough aware of his music to recognize the difference between the originals and re-recordings. Only someone who has been a fan for a long time, and probably bought many Hag recordings, would make that distinction.

I love the originals and have most of them. However, I think Live At Billy Bob's improved on every orignial it included. That's my opinion and others will disagree.

I think Tom's complaint was justified because the album didn't contain what HE intended to purchase and that wasn't obvious from the package.

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HagFan

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 14 Jan 2003 3:32 pm

Point made Ron - I understand....

I enjoy all Hag stuff so it took a while for me to realize where he was coming from...

No harm intended...

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Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8 & 9 - Troy Cook Jr Band ~ Stardust Nashville Recording Artist

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Jan 2003 5:17 pm

The cover said that it contained Merle's hits. The CD didn't have the hit recordings on it. I suppose it's a question of whether the "hit" is the song or the recording of the song. The marketing slime generally disagree with the public on this fine point.

If the album were labeled honestly, they might have sold 10% fewer copies.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 14 Jan 2003 5:27 pm

While were on one of my favorite subjects -- Hag...

Merle has his favorite and not-so-favorite Hag recordings too.

I'm short on specifics, but I know it's in his book where he doesn't think Curb gave his music much of a chance. He was insulted that they didnt' even put his photo on 1994 or 1996, and to add insult to injury they simply reverse videoed the silhouette image from 1994 to 1996.

Curb failed to promote "Blue Jungle" -- a fine album and blew it by holding back "Me and Crippled Soldiers" until they could produce that entire album. 1994 and 1996 aren't the best productions, despite some excellent song writing by Merle, Iris DeMint and Max D. Barnes; some of the best. On 1994 they used precious little steel. Sonny Garrish did a good job on Ramblin' Fever and that's about all there was for steel.

Merle has a war chest full of unreleased material. It's going to come our way some day. I just know it will. I just hope it's produced in California instead of TN.

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HagFan

[This message was edited by Ron Page on 14 January 2003 at 05:29 PM.]