back beat on a shuffle?

Merle Record · Post by **Merle Record** » 26 Jan 2003 8:03 am

It seem like a good back beat for a common country shuffle can be played on a variety of instruments: piano,fiddle, guitar etc. I suppose even a tic tac bass,although I can't really recall hearing it done on tic tac.

I've heard the back beat described as: eight notes, dotted eights and altered eights. The way I would describe it would be, if you can imagine a triplet being played for every beat, it would be the third note of the triplet.
Does anyone agree, or how would you describe it?
Merle

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 27 Jan 2003 12:59 pm

"The way I would describe it would be, if you can imagine a triplet being played for every beat, it would be the third note of the
triplet."

That is indeed the way jazz players phrase "swung eighths," written as eighth notes but with a swing feel specified.

A straight shuffle--like a boogie woogie" on the other hand has been described as a "dotted eighth, sixteenth" combination. Small, subtle, but important difference.

What do you guys think? Country shuffle as "triplet" or as "dotted eighth + sixteenth"?

Chris

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 29 Jan 2003 12:51 am

If you start trying to program it into a sequencer, it's easiest to start with the triplet quantise setting, but it won't sound quite the way most people play it. To sequence in time with the way I play live, I bring the beat a little forward at the beginning of the bar and play a few ticks late at the end. The amount of "swing" is about 1/128th on a beat.
Other people push or pull the beat in other ways- most of them are quite characteristic of the player, but a good ensemble musician will lock into the groove very quickly whatever their personal preferences. Some people can't do it, mostly because they never listen to the other players anyway.
Cheers
Dave

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 29 Jan 2003 8:05 am

I tend to line up with the "third note of the triplet" concept. But then I just heard Vince Gill's "Next Big Thing" yesterday which seems halfway between straight beat and shuffle/swing, and it really throws me a curve. Any comments on the rhythm in that song (it seems to suit the discussion well)?

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<font size=-1>Bill L | My steel page | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?</font>

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 31 Jan 2003 9:47 am

I guess I don't know rhythm terminology very well because I was thinking that "The Next Best Thing" was a text book example of a "back beat."

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 31 Jan 2003 12:32 pm

Yup. The "third note..". WHen I play it, I pop a low triad or root/5 and kill a swelled volume. (I have that old song "Magic Touch" in mind ( by The Platters)).

I've always been amazed at the "new generation's" lack of appreciation for the "backbeat". If the drummer doesn't "handle" it, rythynm guitar or keyboards do it well too.

Here's a twist and something to try, if only in your mind or private space.

It's gotten my by a lot of times in these "Duplex" songs.

Try playing every other backbeat as a "dotted note" and the other a straight eigth note. You might see that some of the "old stuff" was done closely to that. It's a good mental excersize if nothing else.

There was an Old School Drummer, Don Kappa, here in town that used to play with Jimmy Patton that had a backbeat that was about perfectly in between the two. He called it a "half shuffle".

I'm not old enough to know if that "duplex rythym" stuff was on purpose or not. Often it occurs when a lead singer trys to play rythym behind, say "The Fireman" and ends up dotting his backbeats on the upswing. It is really annoying, especially if the drummer is to lazy to play eighth notes and trys to "bounce" them. One guy, I called "Shuffle Buck" did it with every str8 song he did, hence my nickname for him...

... tell me that I haven't played in a few "bar bands".....

EJL