Theory and sightreading

A. B. Traynor · Post by **A. B. Traynor** » 7 Apr 2004 3:43 pm

Hello everyone I am new to this forum thing. It is fantastic to know that I am able to communicate with fellow musicians around the world . Anyways, not to get off topic, but I would like to know some feelings that you have about the ability to sightread as well as how important you feel theory is in expanding your vocabulary. I have recently taken an interest in really studying the "elementary rudiments of music" I have been a musician for 11 years and a steel player for two (as I am 23 y/o). I feel as though for my playing sometimes I hit roadblocks in as much that In my head I can hear every note that I want to express but I am lacking the physical training (you know-- the kind of fingering and bar movement excersices that feel sooo uncumfortable yet are sooo beneficial) to say just what I want to say. It arises out of this challenge that I have taken interest in sightreading Especially parts for such instruments as clarinets, tenor sax, trombone and trumpet. It is my personal hope that by really knowing the theory behind music (scales, intervals etc) and not just being a parrot (only knowing how to play what is in front of you-take that away and you're clueless) that it will help me in my "practical" playing (up on stage where the real fun is to be had!!!) I also have a sneaking suspicion that some of the big dogs in the steel world have a pretty solid grounding in the stuff. I welcome your feedback and thank you very kindly If you happen to respond to my posting. It would mean a lot to me!! Anyways, I am on the computer at the public library and my time is almost up so I hope to hear from you soon and may the force be with you!!! Rock and Roll-- Adam Traynor

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Apr 2004 6:22 pm

One problem you might bump into with some of those instruments is the transposition. Try to find music written in concert.
I think Joe Wright's approach might suit what you are trying to do more than a tab based play along system.
Check this out for learning the neck:
www.pedalsteel.com/joe/pro/sheet.html

The Jamey Abersold stuff is invaluable also.

As well as band in a box. BIAB has a solo generator that is great reading practice.

Find a live steel teacher to help to get your technique and sound together at first and then a great jazz guy to help you with theory.

I'm not one of the big dogs by any means but I have made some progress in my playing by working on music stuff on my steel rather than just working on steel stuff if that makes any sense.

have fun, Bob

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 7 Apr 2004 8:05 pm

It is my personal hope that by really knowing the theory behind music (scales, intervals etc) and not just being a parrot (only knowing how to play what is in front of you-take that away and you're clueless) that it will help me in my "practical" playing (up on stage where the real fun is to be had!!!)

The more you know, and it doesn't come easy, the easier it is to see the "connections" and the beauty of this stuff. Music and sound are the most ethereal and abstact of the art forms. Theory is a way of describing and codifying it. I encourage you to learn as much as you possibly can about all the forms of music. The bigger the playground, the more fun it can be.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 8 Apr 2004 2:41 am

Very cool that you have interested in a deeper understanding of music. Anything you work on will return to you making you a better player.

Try the old Klosse clarinet book. Many guitarist like it because it gets you low and way up high in the staff for better reading skills. As long as you are working by yourself don't worry about the key tranpositions.

Find a good book on chord substitutions and chord melody. Invaluable.

Keep at it!!!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Apr 2004 4:53 am

I agree with Chaz, the more you know the bigger the playground.

Because I have a pretty good, if not total, basis in theory, in 4 months with my Sbud,
I was able to play 3 tunes at a jazz gig, on PSG.

Not bragging, just making the point that if I didn't have a good jazz theory grounding, I never would have gotten that far that fast.

But even if it is just a I-IV-V country gig,
the steel player with good theory can do much more with this knowlege,
to add really cool stuff in between those simple chords.
And have more fun doing it too.

One of the strongest points of the PSG in country music is it's passing chord abilities in this context.
And yes the Big Dogs do have big theory knowledge[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 April 2004 at 05:55 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Apr 2004 6:29 am

Don't mean to rain on this parade, but the vast majority of top steelers in the past couldn't read a lick of music. Some top pros have learned to read some, but mostly only after they were already top pros. Probably quite a few steelers who learned to read music on other instruments can laborously translate written music to the steel (I learned on piano and sax, and can do that). The number of steelers who can sight read (read music seen for the first time up to tempo) can be counted on one hand. That is only expected of studio guys who work on soundtracks, etc., and is essentially never expected on a country or rock stage.

There is a special problem with reading music on steel. There is not the usual one-to-one correspondence between the written note and where it is played on the instrument. There are many places on steel to play any note or chord. That makes it much more difficult to learn to read on a steel than on piano or horns.

Traditional steel guitar is a play-by-ear instrument, and that will be your quickest avenue to playing in public with others using extensive set lists and taking requests. Every steeler who can do that (and it is very much expected) has developed a very great facility for recognizing chords and learning a progression after hearing the first verse. The quickest avenue to that is playing along with CDs, radio, BIAB and informal jams with others.

Having said that, of course the more theory you already know before starting steel, the better. The steel is a chord instrument (like regular guitar and piano, not merely a scale and melody instrument like horns). You certainly need to start out knowing simple chords (I, IV, V7, rel. minor) in several keys. But you need to know them on your instrument, and maybe from a chord chart or tab, not necessarily from written music. Once you have those chords under your belt, you will need to develop facility at playing them by ear in known and unknown songs. Later you can gradually learn more complicated and less used chords, scales and melodies. But remember, melodies on steel are mostly played over chords, the same as on a piano. It's that moving harmony that makes the steel sound we all love.

I'm not trying to discourage your learning music reading and theory. As everyone says above, the more you know the better. But it would be a mistake to concentrate too much on that at the beginning while neglecting to learn to play by ear. People who learn by rote from tab or music will stay in the bedroom much longer than those who learn to play by ear as quickly as possible.

By the way, when learning to read music on steel, tab with the written music in parallel is extremely helpful. Some of Doug Jernigans instructional material has that. If there are any other materials like that, I'd be interested in knowing about it.

Good luck. It's a long roe to hoe. But it's fun all the way.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 8 Apr 2004 9:23 am

Mega dittos Dave,

As one who learned to play ONLY by tab, followed immediately by playing ONLY by reading music, I can equate with every single word Dave wrote.

For the steel guitar........

LEARN to play by ear first. Let the music you hear dictate what you play at first. Then after your ears become acclimated to sound-ears-brain-heart-hands, then and ONLY THEN learn to read and understand what you have been doing. And more importantly, why.

If you try it the other way around, I can assure you, it will forever be a hindrance if you wanta be a real pro. For it is the sound that maketh a musician, not the writings on paper!

However, reading music fluently, always makes a good musician better; as long as the "hearing" remains first and foremost.

carl

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 8 Apr 2004 10:07 am

but the vast majority of top steelers in the past couldn't read a lick of music. Some top pros have learned to read some, but mostly only after they were already top pros.

I suspect that the top guys rise to the top because they have a "gift" and have made the effort necessary to develop it. The rest of us have to work even harder. Joaquin Murphey couldn't read music, but he knew what notes were in the chords and what chord progressions sounded good. He also had a gift where he could rake across the strings to see how the guitar was tuned and then know where every note was on every string up and down the fretboard.

Over the years I've worked in alot of different shops and there's always a guitar player who is convinced that he's the "chosen one" who doesn't have to learn his scales or theory to be great. Need I say more.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Apr 2004 10:49 am

Carl I am not sure which Dave you were refering too?

My comments weren't about sight reading, but about the basic construction theory behind music and then which pedals to hit, where and when.

All the top guys I have heard were clearly theory mavens in one form or another.
Even if they could couldn't just spell a C#aug #13.

No chance they could have played this stuff without at least a long trained theory ear.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 8 Apr 2004 11:17 am

what's tough about pedal steel is that the same note can appear 4 times on 4 consectutive frets, depending on what raise/ lower combos you have (like the 3rd + 4th string on C6 with pedal 7 and raise and lower levers)- "Thinking notes" is cumbersome, but when you are practicing slowly, you have time to think- and that knowledge really helps when you don't have time to think- the old left brain working with the right.

And David L. is totally correct- although they may not use the same names for stuff, the great players HEAR and KNOW the relationships, whether they read or don't. And that's what it's all about.

My opinion is to get all the information you can and put it to use, intelligently, to help organize the sounds, rather than shooting in the dark (though that's fun sometimes too!)[This message was edited by John McGann on 08 April 2004 at 12:19 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Apr 2004 11:47 am

I know just enough theory to hurt my playing.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Apr 2004 12:53 pm

I absolutely agree that anyone who learns to play the steel guitar well will learn a lot of theory along the way, whether they use the music school names or not. I can't ever remember any two steelers talking steel with each other without talking a lot of theory, even if they use informal terminology. Just describing copedents, chord progressions, and licks to each other are excercises in theory. Bass players and sax players do not much engage in that kind of conversation. The steel is an intensely theoretical instrument. But I guess I think playing steel will teach you theory better than learning theory first will teach you to play steel. Other than a few fundamentals of theory, you got to get the ear, heart, hand thing going.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 8 Apr 2004 1:07 pm

If you don't learn harmony/theory and don't learn to read at least a little music notation, you WILL limit the music you can actually hear and play. [This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 08 April 2004 at 02:17 PM.]

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 8 Apr 2004 4:18 pm

Of the many who have called, emailed, etc. to ask me to teach them jazz, I've had to decline primarily because--even though they play well with good technique---they lack the background in jazz theory--that's a big step, and cannot be learned overnight. HJ

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Apr 2004 8:19 pm

Rick,
That is a great point ! Its funny but the more I learn about music the more I actually hear. Reading even as crappy as I do has been a major help.

Bob

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 8 Apr 2004 11:43 pm

If I may be permitted, I'd like to remind you that I've written a book on the subject.
http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=98207&Heading=Theory%2C+Composition%2C+and+Reference&category=T14&catID=&head1=&head2=&sub=&sub1=&mode=best

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 9 Apr 2004 8:20 am

Mikes Book = 2 thumbs UP!!!

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 Apr 2004 8:41 am

The pedal steel is not the only musical instrument that a given note can be found at mutliple frets (or places), but it is one of few where those notes actually change in pitch at those locations (save vibrato). The Harp as used in classical music is one that comes to mind.

Scruggs tuners and the device the late Phil Baugh used (on his lead guitar) are two more examples.

Having the same note at different places does not seem to bother those who read music fluently. I believe the specific place one chooses is mostly determined by where the present note is and what the next note (or notes) is. "Ear" on top of musical training has no equal in this choice.

A prime example is the 2nd string on our E9th tuning, and the E lever (4th string). When does one use the D# on one string versus the other string? The answer is IMO; it's the musical flow and style that determines where the note is played.

carl

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 9 Apr 2004 9:28 am

In my case I find it easier to read on C6 w/ no pedals when I first sit down to a piece of music.

If I'm required to read on E9 (for a session etc.), I'm mostly thinking about keeping all the options to a minimum by starting out with either no pedals, or both A+B pedals down....basically thinking of it as TWO tunings. I shy away from using pedals in the usual way until I get a grasp on what it is that I'm trying to read.

BTW...even though I've been reading most of my life, I'm still not what you'd call a good "sight reader". I've always thought I might be a little dyslectic when trying to follow the notated page in real time. It's something that I need to do EVERYDAY just to be mediocre at it. Still it's very important to me! There's alot of treasure to be found in music books.

A. B. Traynor · Post by **A. B. Traynor** » 9 Apr 2004 12:45 pm

Rick- I absolutely agree that there is untold riches to be found in music books. It reminds me of the way the church used latin so that only the priests could understand what the literature had to say. Being unable to sightread almost excludes you from really knowing music not just steel guitar.

Don Benoit · Post by **Don Benoit** » 9 Apr 2004 5:13 pm

I don't sight read but I know something about chord costruction. I found that once I made a chart of the fretboard and put number to every spot I could see scales patterns and chords. That opened up a new world to me.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 10 Apr 2004 6:30 am

The way I approach reading music on the steel is to look for chord outlines. When I find them I get into the proper chord position, and then figure out what kind of pedal or bar movements I need to make to accomodate the non chordal tones.

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 11 Apr 2004 6:39 pm

Learning theory gives me a headache,but,as a student of PSG, I have found that I WILL have to learn some in order to play EFFECTIVELY.

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D.S. Rigsby
Carter Starter and various six string toys[This message was edited by Dustin Rigsby on 11 April 2004 at 07:39 PM.][This message was edited by Dustin Rigsby on 11 April 2004 at 07:40 PM.]