What do Toby Keith and Islam have in common?

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 8 Nov 2004 11:18 am

Muslim Rappers Combine Hip-Hop With Islamic Beliefs

CHICAGO -- David Kelly, whose hip-hop name is "Capital D," doesn't rap about
women, cars and jewelry. Instead, the Chicago rapper uses his rhymes to
praise Allah, criticize the war in Iraq and blast corporate America.

Kelly is among a new group of Muslim hip-hop artists.

Before converting to Islam four years ago, Kelly -- who was raised Catholic
-- said his music lacked seriousness and discipline.

Muslim hip-hop artists who have hit the mainstream include Mos Def and
Everlast. Others, such as Kelly, have a loyal following but haven't reached
the masses.

Not all perform in alcohol-free venues as Kelly does. And references to
Islam vary in their music. But the list of Muslim rappers continues to grow.

It's a more interesting world every day!

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 8 Nov 2004 11:36 am

....and what does this have to do with Toby Keith?

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 08 November 2004 at 11:37 AM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 8 Nov 2004 12:00 pm

Toby also recently converted to Islam.

MBS

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 8 Nov 2004 12:00 pm

Gene, this one isn't about politics, but Rap getting more mainstream- I'm referring to Toby's recent "rap-country" hit. Personally, if it's not advocating cop killing and woman hating, I'm all for it.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Nov 2004 12:21 pm

And also limiting the general mysogony towards women.

Sadly so much of rap was both
mirroring the worst of inner city life,
as well as influencing it for the worse.

If it takes islam to be a mellowing infuence on RAP so be it.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 November 2004 at 12:21 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Nov 2004 12:43 pm

For awhile now a number of rap producers have been putting middle-eastern rhythms harmonies and melodies in their rap songs. There are many Muslim converts in black communities across the country. I see black women with heads and faces covered and full body gowns everyday on the streets of Philly. Ever since the Black Muslims of the '60s, there has been a tendency among some city blacks to think of Christianity as the white European religion, and Islam as the African/middle-eastern religion. This is in spite of the fact that Arabs trafficked extensively in black slavery in the not so distant past. It's a strange world, and getting stranger.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 8 Nov 2004 12:59 pm

Hey Brad---LMAO

!!

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 8 Nov 2004 2:02 pm

No kidding Brad, that's one of the funniest things I've seen on the forum in a long time. High Comedy!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Nov 2004 2:05 pm

Had me going there for a minute.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 8 Nov 2004 3:52 pm

It's not like religion to cause trouble in our World, is it?

Uwe Haegg · Post by **Uwe Haegg** » 9 Nov 2004 12:43 am

It is my firm belief that the western democracies will have to fight for their survival aginst the islamic "influence".

I wouldn`t buy a Toby Keith CD.
There are a lot of other artist out there who can sing and who don`t need to display an attitude to get attention.[This message was edited by Uwe Haegg on 09 November 2004 at 12:44 AM.]

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 9 Nov 2004 6:45 am

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 9 Nov 2004 7:05 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It is my firm belief that the western democracies will have to fight for their survival aginst the islamic "influence".
I wouldn`t buy a Toby Keith CD.
There are a lot of other artist out there who can sing and who don`t need to display an attitude to get attention.

[This message was edited by Uwe Haegg on 09
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Standing ovation for Ewu!

Terry

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Zum D10 /8x5 / session 400
steelin for my Lord

Walter Hamlin · Post by **Walter Hamlin** » 9 Nov 2004 3:14 pm

I'll say AMEN to that and second it too, Terry.
Walter

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 9 Nov 2004 3:15 pm

O, I don't know... they're both belligerent?

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 9 Nov 2004 4:06 pm

Rap! The music(?) with the missing `C`.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 9 Nov 2004 8:56 pm

I don't consider rap to be music, and I'm offended that people accept it as such. It can however be considered poetry.

Personally, all I have heard is a lot of profanity. However, I have been told that the genre is maturing, and there are now some fine poets working within it.

I have a simple test of a song's value. Can it stand up as an instrtumental? If it can, it passes the test. It it can't, it fails.

By that admittedly somewhat harsh standard, ALL rap "music" fails miserably.

As far as buying a CD by either Toby Kieth or a Muslim the test should be whether or not you like the music. Not the political or religious beliefs of the artist.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 10 Nov 2004 7:10 am

I think the Toby Keith song in question is "I Wanna Talk About Me". He speaks some of it, sings some of it. I'll admit Toby doesn't do a lot for me, I think his sense of bravado is over the top. But I didn't think of that song as rap until I saw it mentioned here some time ago. If that song is rap, however, how about Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named Sue"? Johhny talked his way through that song instead of singing it. And it's a country classic.

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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 10 Nov 2004 7:32 am

Johnny Cash the rapper! Did he convert to Islam too?

I'm pretty sure Tex Williams was praising Allah in "Smoke That Cigarette"...

Don Joslin · Post by **Don Joslin** » 10 Nov 2004 8:22 am

What about 'Giddy-Up-Go' by Red Sovine or 'Jimmy Jones' off of the new Junior Brown CD, or CW McCall's 'Convoy', or Jimmy Dean's 'Big Bad John'? Are they not 'rap' because they have a country beat and instrumentation behind them?

For the record, I'm not a big Toby Kieth fan either. I bought 'Shock 'n Y'all' because I liked 'Whiskey Girl' (sorry, my rock background is creeping in) but for the most part, I don't really like the guy. Especially his new 'Mexico' tune regarding the demise of the American Family.

Don

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My favorite baseball team is the Minnesota Twins...
-------- ...my second favorite is whoever is playing the Yankees!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Nov 2004 9:48 am

Mike P., music is melody, harmony and rhythm. Some music has more melody, and some has more rhythm. They are just the different extremes of the same spectrum. I don't think you can cut off one end of the spectrum and say it's not music. Speaking lines in rhythm with music is an old tradition in both black and white southern music. Then there are rythmic cheerleader chants at football games. Is that music? Umm...maybe not.

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 10 Nov 2004 11:06 am

Interesting post David. Not to hijack this thread, but IS a cheerleader chant music?

If not, would it be music if it had a kick & snare beat under it? Why? What defines something as a piece of music vs. a chant or a recitation?

I find these questions fascinating!

-GV

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 10 Nov 2004 11:23 am

Oh did I say Toby Keith converted to Islam? I meant to say Michael Jackson. I always get those two mixed up.

Brad Sarno

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 10 Nov 2004 11:33 am

Also, regarding the tangent on Rap music. I do most of the CD mastering in St. Louis which happens to be the current hotbed of new Rap talent. I master over 200 rap projects a year. I can tell you from the front line that not all rap sucks. Some of it is downright excellent. RAP - Rhythm And Poetry is supposedly the root of the name. It can only be judged for what it is. Truth is, the good stuff has perhaps music's most advanced examples of groove pockets, deeply rooted in jazz, funk, and especially African rhythms. It's dance music and focuses on the science of maximizing the impact of the down and back beat. It may sound simple, but there's some very subtle aspects to "good" rap rhythms.

The lyrics are what separate the men from the boys. The good stuff is brilliant and clever social commentary. The cRap is the stuff that's just regurgitation of mindless, misogynistic, hateful babble. Just as in ANY genre, there is the best and the worst. As we often see in country and pop music, the worst generally rises to the chart tops. Sometimes one has to dig a bit to find the integrity in any genre. In the Rap world, that integrity is most definitely there.

Brad Sarno

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 10 Nov 2004 12:51 pm

What? Toby Keith converted to Michael Jackson?....Im so confused......[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 10 November 2004 at 12:52 PM.]