Recording ?

Jim Landers · Post by **Jim Landers** » 17 Jul 2000 10:22 am

Maybe some of you can offer a few tips on the best approach to recording instruments.

I am not trying to make professional quality recordings. All I'm trying to do is get some decent sounding recordings of some of my music onto cassette tapes.

The equipment I'm using is very basic to say the least. I'm using a Shure 57 mic and a Fostex X-26 four track recorder to record and mix on, and then transfering the finnished recording to a regular cassette tape.

I get a real nice clean drum track with no problems. I'm going straight into the recorder from the drum machine. After I get the drum track down, I am trying to add a rhythm guitar track, and then a steel guitar track. The problem is that the guitar and steel guitar tracks are coming out very "muddy" sounding.

The guitar is an old Epiphone Emperor arch-top, with a single pick-up and a lot of over-tones. I have tried running a line straight into the recorder, and I have tried to mic the amp. Of the two, putting a mic to the amp (Fender Twin Reverb) works the best, but it still sounds lousy. The steel (Fender T-8) records a lot better, but still is'nt real clean sounding.

In the past I have been able to get some pretty decent sounding recordings using mostly accoustic instruments, but trying to record the electric instruments, especially the Epiphone, is proving to be a real challenge. So any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jim

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Jul 2000 2:28 pm

I'm moving this to the Electronics area.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 17 Jul 2000 3:58 pm

With what you have to work with, you don't really have that many options, but you might spend some time with mic placement. If your amp is giving you a pleasing sound to your ear, an SM-57 should be able to make a reasonable reproduction of it. Try micing the amp up close, further away, closer to the center of the speaker cone, further away, etc. I usually get best results at a fairly close distance and more toward the edge of the cone.

I'm not very familiar with the fostex, but if it has high impedance mic inputs, you need a matching transformer (available at radio shack) to get a good sound and enough gain. If you can spend a little money, get a Behringer MX602A mixer for about 80 bucks from Guitar Center or Musicians Friend. That would give you decent mic preamps, eq's, and the ability to mix line signals, and effects. Well worth the money.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 18 Jul 2000 2:02 am

Jim, are you using any kind of EQ on the steel and guitar? (Does the Fostex even have an equaliser?)

You might want to consider buyiing either a seperate EQ unit, or better, a mixing board with one built in.

If you decide to get a board, make sure it has at least 8 channels so that if/when you upgrade your recorder to an 8 track, you'll already have a compatable board and won't have to buy another.

Jim Landers · Post by **Jim Landers** » 18 Jul 2000 9:42 am

Jerry, thanks for the tip on the MX602A. I ordered one this morning from Musicians Friend for $79.95.

Mike, no the Fostex really does'nt have an equalizer. You can adjust the bass and treble plus or minus 10, but that's all it has.

I have always been able to get fairly decent sounding recordings with what I've been using, but this is the first time that I have tried to record the Epiphone, and it seems to need more help than just mic placement.

It's a great sounding guitar, but it seems to be hard to record properly. I would imagine that is due to the mid-range overtones it produces, so hopefully the mixer will be able to cure that.

Thanks to both of you guys for your help.

Jim

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 18 Jul 2000 3:38 pm

Here's a quote from George Massenburg about acoustic guitars (and he does know a thing or two

)

"In my not so humble opinion, if you're using cardioid mics (with the low-end build-up) you're going to *have* to
use one or two more-or-less sharp dips to control the fundamental Helmholtz frequency and an overtone or two,
and do it without losing all the low end altogether.

Parametrics were made for acoustic guitars.

George"

Oops, I thought the Epiphone was an acoustic. Oh, well, Parametrics work well on everything.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Macy on 18 July 2000 at 06:14 PM.]</p></FONT>

Kevin Post · Post by **Kevin Post** » 18 Jul 2000 7:06 pm

You didn't mention what year your amp was. If it's a reissue, turn it up to about six, and set the eq to taste. You should be able to set it pretty flat. Tubes need to be driven to do their good work. Beware of neighbors.

There is a really good Fender amp thread going on right now. I've really learned alot.

As always, fresh strings...and try some tempo delay, for more dimension.

Kevin Post · Post by **Kevin Post** » 18 Jul 2000 7:12 pm

Also, you can pull 600Hz out of about any stringed instrument and improve the sound quality. I have a little studio and I pull it on almost everything! I've heard many pro engineers say it's a completely useless frequency.

Bob Metzger · Post by **Bob Metzger** » 19 Jul 2000 11:48 am

Jim,
What sounds good to you live or just in a room, may not sound good on tape. That's why amps have treble, middle and bass controls. Experiment, especially in your case, with the bass and mids. I've recorded lots of parts that went down silly but worked in the context of the record. Don't be afraid to try something different. Home recording is about learning.

Bob

Dave Horch · Post by **Dave Horch** » 19 Jul 2000 1:05 pm

Jim, you're well on your way into another very expensive habit. Trust me.

Without being able to hear what you're hearing, it's a bit of a guess... The SM57 is used all the time in front of electric guitar amps, so that's not the problem. BTW/if you were miking an acoustic with it, you'd be less than pleased, as Massenburg hints (thanks John). The hint about moving it around to find the "right" placement is a good one.

You say "muddy", and that's usually low-mid EQ range. Kevin suggested pulling out (cutting the EQ) at ~600Hz. That's a good hint, and I would think you could go lower than that if needed, maybe down to 250Hz or so. Although on the mixer you ordered, the EQ's are fixed frequency, so you'll be at the mercy of the mid-eq center frequency and Q that are designed into the unit.

If you have a digital reverb, a tad of that on the drum track might be pleasing to you. But everything is subjective and a matter of personal taste.

Good luck!, -Dave