The ol' delay trick...

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 5 Dec 2001 6:51 pm

I've been listening to "Buddy" Live in Denver". At the end there is a great Q&A where Buddy describes his rack and demonstrates his effects.
I have a rackmount unit that has Delay and Envelope Filter built in and was trying to find some of the settings Buddy uses for the speed pickin' delay trick.
I just finished a 5 hour sit at the steel and found that between 300ms and 400ms (depending how fast you want it to sound) works great for this effect (I ended up passing the envelope filter, for now).
Your hand picks the strings slowly but it comes out sounding super fast! Fun stuff!
It took a while to get it but it was really fun messing around with it.
I've heard this effect used for "Ghost riders in the sky" with a drum machine (easy to sync the delay with the tempo).
Anyone else using this effect with a live band?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Dec 2001 7:05 pm

I recall the Jimmy Dickens song "May the Bird of Paradise Fly Up Your Nose" used this technique (with a straight guitar). It is neat, but is hard to get "right". If someone's timing is a little off, or the song isn't always consistent, it can become a "train wreck" in a hurry!

It gets old fast, though, so I wouldn't use it more than once or twice a night.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 5 Dec 2001 7:18 pm

Hey Pete,
This is really a head turner when you use this technique!! I first became aware of it in the sixties by an old friend of mine in So. Calif. by the name of Gene Fields (Who now builds the GFI guitars). Gene used an old EchoPlex tape delay unit and had the best arrangement of "Little Rock Getaway" you've ever heard using this effect. On a HotLicks video by Albert Lee he demonstrates how to do this. In simple terms you just use one repeat at the same volume as the original note and get it a beat and a half after the picked note. It really helps on steel guitar to just rest your right hand on the changer lightly to mute ever note as you don't want it to all ring together. Some excellent examples of this technique on lead guitar would be by John Jorgensen on the Desert Rose Band's "The Price I Pay" and also the Hellecaster's arrangement of "Orange Blossom Special". Jorgensen has this down for sure. I've heard that Bobbe Seymore does this very well but I've never heard it. I'm thinking of getting some of his recordings. I've seen him live at the convention but I don't remember whether he used it because I was too mesmerized by his great Travis pickin'to pay attention to anything else. He's got that stuff nailed!

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 05 December 2001 at 07:19 PM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 5 Dec 2001 7:43 pm

Donny; wasn't that Grady Martin on the Bird Of Paradise ?? I think it was but I'm not sure. In light of the other posts and Threads about Grady, this may be one more tribute to the MAN !!

Regards, Paul

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Dec 2001 8:06 pm

Is this what you're talking about?
Go to this page and click on Uncle Phil
(the MP3 sounds much better if you've got the bandwidth)

Uses the delay to turn eighth notes into sixteenth notes. And Donny's right -- it can be a major fashion risk if your drummer's not REAL steady. The 'Tap Tempo' feature some digital delays have makes dialing in the right tempo much easier.

Works great in tunes like 'Folsom Prison Blues'.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 05 December 2001 at 08:10 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Dec 2001 9:10 pm

Larry,
I don't care if it is cheating, your Uncle Phil sound FABULOUS! What a great tune, and your playing is terrific. Congrats on a super job, man!

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 5 Dec 2001 10:08 pm

GD Walker does a very good job of "Ghost Riders" using this delay technique. (The Stereo Steel amp builder). Daddy Frank Hardcastle subbed for me a couple of times at the Little O' Opry and brought the house down with this technique on "Ghost Riders"
He did it so good I could not believe he was doing all that without some sort of hidden sound track or some trick. Then he kicked in his IVL and played keyboard, horns, strings etc. I had an insecure feeling for several weeks after that!!!!!! The fans were asking "why can't you do that"? That was over 5 years ago and I am still there so I guess it didn't hurt, but it sure put me to hunting for an IVL set-up which I never found. Don't want it now.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 5 Dec 2001 10:22 pm

As a lot of you know, I have a video out explaining how to do this trick,how to pick it, how to set the delay, and how to use it with a band. This is a very wonderful trick for the player that wants to play extremly fast, with little or no experence. Instantly,anyone can play as fast as they wish. Want to play "Rocky Top" twice as fast as your guitar player with very little practice???? This will do it. Notes as fast and precise as a machine gun. Thanks Jerry.
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 06 December 2001 at 08:02 PM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 5 Dec 2001 10:44 pm

Sounds great Larry!

Man! What a blast this is!

I wish I woulda learned this years ago.

Michael Garnett · Post by **Michael Garnett** » 6 Dec 2001 1:16 am

sounds almost like something Junior Brown used to play... I don't have it sitting right in front of me, but he sure can play fast!

Garnett

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 6 Dec 2001 5:34 am

I don't know if he still does, but Gerry Walker used to program three variations of that Ghostriders delay on his Stereo-Steel units.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 6 Dec 2001 6:02 am

Check this Real Audio clip:
Buddy's Echoplex on Ghost Riders

Right click on the link and select "Save target as..." Then open your RA player and open the file. The Real Player will do the rest. (The file you save isn't the file, but a direction finder for your player. It allows it to stream. To play it you'll have to be on-line.

BTW: If you left click it, it goes to some streaming cash site. Why? I don't know. Sometimes Real Audio files confuse me.)

I learned to do the effect from listening to this the summer of 77. Way cool, stuff!

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com[This message was edited by Ernie Renn on 06 December 2001 at 06:20 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 6 Dec 2001 6:25 pm

Jim,
You're too kind. Best of luck on your project tomorrow. I'm sure it'll be great. Put me down for a copy.

Pete,
It is fun when it works, but I played a steel show with a band I'd rehearsed it with half a dozen times and it got derailed about half way through -- on a tune like that one where the gimmick is really the song, the effect is no longer optional. Coulda been worse -- we did recover and I nailed the ending -- always the most important part of any song.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 8 Dec 2001 8:43 am

In a Telcaster Instructional Video, Albert Lee demonstrates this lick, from his solo in "Country Boy".

He uses a Lexicon, one repeat, 330 mSec. [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 08 December 2001 at 08:43 AM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 8 Dec 2001 9:56 am

330ms is where I found it too.
Anywhere in the 300-400 range works O.K.
I have had so much fun the last few days messing around with this!

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 8 Dec 2001 10:30 am

Jim, right on. Larry's playing is great.

I have heard Bobbe use this trick. He is great at it and it is a real show stoper. Great stuff.